The ongoing Elon Twitter saga: "insert demographic" melts down

dowie · 31 Jan 2024 at 15:10

dlockers said:
The guys that actually founded Tesla already knew Musk as rocket man.

Lots of people knew who Musk was, they didn't found "Tesla" they founded "SRA", the name Tesla was the one Elon gave it, it didn't have a product, didn't have IP... they and Elon both wanted to start an EV company so they teamed up.

You'd have an argument if there was already some product but there wasn't, the only argument you have is that a company (with no product and no IP) had been registered.

dlockers · 31 Jan 2024 at 15:12

dowie said:
Lots of people knew who Musk was.

Ah we are in the Donald Trump book of responses now :cry:

dlockers · 31 Jan 2024 at 15:16

Are you finishing editing now?

dowie said:
Lots of people knew who Musk was, they didn't found "Tesla" they founded "SRA", the name Tesla was the one Elon gave it,

So you are saying the legal name of the company is what is important to be a cofounder?

dowie said:
it didn't have a product, didn't have IP.

Source please. Seems odd Musk would sign over a bunch of money to a firm that had nothing without his name anywhere.

dowie · 31 Jan 2024 at 15:21

dlockers said:
So you are saying the legal name of the company is what is important to be a cofounder?

No, I'm saying that even the original name didn't last... so this legal entity SRA already existing, with no IP and no product is so fundamental to Tesla because...?

The fact is the five of them could have shut it down and registered a new legal entity.

dlockers said:
Source please. Seems odd Musk would sign over a bunch of money to a firm that had nothing without his name anywhere.

Their first product was the roadster, in 2008, several years after their founding, a product that Elon was significantly involved with.

Why would it be odd for a person who wants to set up an EV company to team up with some other people who want to do that too? Especially as he wasn't full-time initially but was Chairman.

C Kent · 31 Jan 2024 at 15:23

3rd or 4th time this has been argued in the thread?

dlockers · 31 Jan 2024 at 15:24

dowie said:
No, I'm saying that even the original name didn't last... so this legal entity SRA already existing, with no IP and no product is so fundamental to Tesla because...?

The fact is the five of them could have shut it down and registered a new legal entity.

Their first product was the roadster, in 2008, several years after their founding, a product that Elon was significantly involved with.

No sources then - you just believe they used the SRA company because it was convenient or some other unsourced suggestion? :cry:

dowie · 31 Jan 2024 at 15:25

dlockers said:
No sources then - you just believe they used the SRA company because it was convenient or some other unsourced suggestion?

You can find the date of the Roadster launch (2008) on the Wiki page you lunatic. If you think they (a hardware company) had some other product or significant IP in the first 9 months, with almost no funding then go ahead and provide a source.

dlockers · 31 Jan 2024 at 15:26

dowie said:
If you think they had some other product or significant IP in the first 9 months then go ahead and provide a source.

LOL! That isn't how this works, you made the claim!

dowie · 31 Jan 2024 at 15:27

dlockers said:
LOL! That isn't how this works, you made the claim!

I did and I backed it their first product was the roadster it took a few years to get to that stage and Elon was significantly involved in that. If you're going to claim otherwise then back it up or jog on...

dlockers · 31 Jan 2024 at 15:28

dowie said:
I did and I backed it their first product was the roadster it took a few years to get to that stage and Elon was significantly involved in that. If you're going to claim otherwise then back it up or jog on...

LOL!

So because it took a few years to get the Roadster out, they had "with no IP and no product"???

:cry:

dowie · 31 Jan 2024 at 15:30

dlockers said:
LOL!

So because it took a few years to get the Roadster out, they had "with no IP and no product"???

OK so what product did they have before Musk joined?

dlockers · 31 Jan 2024 at 15:32

dowie said:
OK so what product did they have before Musk joined?

lol man, you are so funny. Your claim was they had nothing before Musk arrived. You made the claim. It seems your basis for the claim was "because it took ages for the Roadster to be produced". There is no discussion here with an action on me; you are the one making claims that contradict the flow of money.

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 31 Jan 2024 at 15:34

dlockers said:
LOL!

So because it took a few years to get the Roadster out, they had "with no IP and no product"???

IP and product are irrelevant
Many tech startups are not much more than an idea when they seek VC or investors
Some investors will want the "founder" badge, which means basically nothing.

dowie · 31 Jan 2024 at 15:35

dlockers said:
lol man, you are so funny. Your claim was they had nothing before Musk arrived. You made the claim. It seems your basis for the claim was "because it took ages for the Roadster to be produced". There is no discussion here with an action on me; you are the one making claims that contradict the flow of money.

That's the first product they launched and it was an EV based on a Lotus. But originally they and Elon both wanted to commercialise the tZero which was how they ended up getting put together! That's what SRA, now Tesla was originally set up to do, the tZero wasn't something they created though, it already existed albeit with no plans by AC propulsion to mass produce it thus why Elon asked whether he could and was put in touch with the others.

Sorry, but this is just tedious tbh. you don't seem to have the first clue about startups, the notion that a team might get funding before they have a product or IP is so alien to you that you've spammed in a bunch of replies confused about it.

dlockers · 31 Jan 2024 at 15:38

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
IP and product are irrelevant
Many tech startups are not much more than an idea when they seek VC or investors
Some investors will want the "founder" badge, which means basically nothing.

And to be clear I never made a claim it was or was not important. It was some strawman Dowie inexplicably started.

dowie said:
That's the first product they launched and it was an EV based on a Lotus.

Seems like a fundamental part of Teslas origins. Who came up with that idea?

dowie said:
Elon asked whether he could and was put in touch with the others.

Whether he asked this and was put in touch or not; the original founders of Tesla reached out to Musk because they knew him already and knew he had money.

dowie · 31 Jan 2024 at 15:42

dlockers said:
And to be clear I never made a claim it was or was not important. It was some strawman Dowie inexplicably started.

There's no straw man argument - you're just avoiding the question re: what the basis is for your argument. Your argument seems to be based on registering the company, so if the five of them had shut it down then registered a new legal entity (a pointless thing to do) they'd all be cofounders in your mind right?

dlockers · 31 Jan 2024 at 15:45

dowie said:
Sorry, but this is just tedious tbh. you don't seem to have the first clue about startups, the notion that a team might get funding before they have a product or IP is so alien to you that you've spammed in a bunch of replies confused about it.

Nope - you made a claim they had nothing and are now throwing that back at me because I asked you to source your claim. The original claim was yours, not mine.

dowie said:
re: what the basis is for your argument

Why ask........

dowie said:
Your argument seems to be based on registering the company, so if the five of them had shut it down then registered a new legal entity (a pointless thing to do) they'd all be cofounders in your mind right?

and then immediately try and answer yourself?

------------

Your argument is the original company that predated Elon had nothing, yet this had the fundamental concept of launching a roadster using Lotus. The original company registration just sets out an indicative timeline. You then twisted the court case to something it wasn't.

I'm not even sure what you are arguing now, other than throwing random points in with no source and then getting worked up?

dowie · 31 Jan 2024 at 15:57

dlockers said:
Why ask........

and then immediately try and answer yourself?

Because you didn't answer/you dodged the question. It certainly seems like you're basing it on the company registration... if not then what? But now you're uneasy with that argument because of the obvious flaw that's been highlighted already.

Here's their first prototype, they started working on this in 2004 after teaming up with Elon and JB. They were initially using AC Propulsion's tech:

Tesla - Where It All Began | The first Tesla

The very first Tesla and the first spec Lotus Elise to enter the USA. This unique piece of history is available for purchase.

www.teslamule1.com

dlockers said:
Your argument is the original company that predated Elon had nothing, yet this had the fundamental concept of launching a roadster using Lotus. The original company registration just sets out an indicative timeline.

They all had the idea of launching an EV with AC Propulsion's tech... that's literally why they were put together as Elon enquired about commercialising the tZero too.

Colonel_Klinck · 31 Jan 2024 at 16:05

jeffk said:
I’M SORRY FOR BRINGING THIS UP. I DIDN’T REALISE THAT IT WOULD CAUSE A TWO PAGE ARGUMENT.

Anything can cause that on this forum. I wouldn't apologise, I'd just roll with it.

dlockers · 31 Jan 2024 at 16:06

dowie said:
Because you didn't answer/you dodged the question. It certainly seems like you're basing it on the company registration... if not then what? But now you're uneasy with that argument because of the obvious flaw that's been highlighted already.

It was a point you raised for some reason, and then couldn't quote a source for, and then turned back on me into some insult about how I didn't know how start ups worked? :cry:

dowie said:
Here's their first prototype, they started working on this in 2004 after teaming up with Elon and JB. They were initially using AC Propulsion's tech:

Tesla - Where It All Began | The first Tesla

The very first Tesla and the first spec Lotus Elise to enter the USA. This unique piece of history is available for purchase.

www.teslamule1.com

The Tesla propulsion tech itself is a modified version of ACs. It isn't known if the Mule had AC version or Tesla modified version. Source: your own link.

P.S. to get to that stage in 2004 means lots of work happened prior to 2004, FYI. Not sure what your point is.

dowie said:
They all had the idea of launching an EV with AC Propulsion's tech... that's literally why they were put together as Elon enquired about commercialising the tZero too.

Nope. The original founders had the idea and setup the company, then they looked for money and Musk showed up. There was no "divine intervention" of being put together (your words). They reached out to Musk because they had the actual vision of launching an EV company using an existing car companies chassis, and needed cash. They knew Musk from a previous shared interest in space.