The Royals

SpeedFreak said:
Most of the above frankly sounds made up. Zero to success for every single one of them in two years. Maybe I am wrong, but I think that's unlikely.
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As much as I would like to make up 17, yes, 17 examples. I think on the balance of probabilities it is unlikely, but since you are interested. I will tell you how they did it, not that it makes a jot of difference.

Friend 1: Yes, they are highly leveraged, but not too much as they bought a street of boarded up properties in Burnley, did the gas work himself and does the annual services himself. They are all rented, but tenant turnover is high.

Friend 2: The clients are from an existing business that he bought not his own, the female owner wanted to keep the cream of customers only, mostly GP's small dog pets, and other professionals. People pay £60 a day for a babysitter, so what's so strange about this, but he is responsible for pickup/drop-offs and feeding them.

Friend 3: The company I work for pay £1050 a day plus VAT for a specialist software trainer so a few hours for a contracted network comms engineer in a major call centre is not too bad. All they have to do is sign the invoices to claim it back through tax :)

Friend 4: I went to his house the other day, the deal of the day was 75K profit, and he does a deal once a month roughly. He was on the phone to his solicitor when I went so only stayed for 10 mins or so.

Friend 5: You seem to think they did ok so no need to detail this one.

Friend 6: Don't know more than turnover but you forget they can sell the business for good money with that turnover.

Friend 7: Don't know more than turnover but they could probably sell the business as a franchise, they are planning a 3rd opening.

Friend 8: Don't know more than turnover but you forget they can sell the business for good money with that turnover.

Friend 9: Yes, leveraged, but almost 100% occupancy most of the time, and 3 x more generated than mortgage amount. His locum generates around £1200/day for weekend working, don't know about days.

Friend 10: Don't know more than turnover but presumably they can sell the business for good money with that turnover.

Friend 11: Don't know more than turnover but presumably they can sell the business for good money with that turnover, currently has 3 dedicated sales staff with company cars.

Friend 12: You seem to think they did ok so no need to detail this one

Friend 13: Think he has around 12 students after counting the number of computer desks and used pads next them, possibly more if on a rotation basis (foreign students from East Asia are usually from wealthy families and value English a lot eventhough we speak it daily)

Friend 14: You seem to think they did ok so no need to detail this one.

Friend 15: Who said anything about Steel, yes he has some, but his speciality is cables for the copper inside them e.g. electrical, computer cables etc. His warehouse is piled high with them, usually from ex-IT lots/building scrap.

Friend 16: You may find this hard to believe but it is relatively cheap to build a house, I have been inside and it is tiled from top to bottom with 4 bathrooms incoporated and 2 ensuite, he did the kitchen work himself to save labour and the doors as well. It looks smallish on the outside but inside it is actually quite massive and spacious. The council would not give permission for it at all at first, after his architect submitted amends etc. they finally caved in - don't ask me why! What's so outlandish - he is a joiner by profession, and not about to pay someone else if he can do it for free where woodwork is concerned. The actual brickies made it in a few weeks.

Friend 17: You seem to think they did ok so no need to detail this one though he does drive the company van around instead of his own car. I am led to believe he is looking for a small family car for a new baby however.

Can I answer any more authenticity questions you may have? If you still think this is BS, then so be it, I cannot convince you otherwise, but my friends have one thing in common, they are hard working and never give up! I suggest you learn from them instead of criticising them, that is why I made the post in the first place to prove with the right attitude, hard work and determination, that it is possible to do well if you are in reasonable good health. After all, the previous owner of this forum and business sold up to the tune of 40 Million I believe, sorry, I don't recall the exact figure and it may have been more or less than that but you get the point.
 
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vanillaface said:
Friend 18: Worked in a sewerage plant literally smelling faecal matter all day. His mum mortgaged her house so he could buy the plant.
2 years later: Makes 14k a month.
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You may joke about this, but there is probably good money in muck I would imagine (sewage treatment I mean). A sewage treatment plant with around half of each customer's water bill going towards it, yummy! This is probably a bit large scale for the average person (could be wrong), and probably in the tens of millions, and likely needs a ton of specialist biology/chemically trained staff. This is just my own opinion however and not based on any evidence or experience in this field other than turning on the tap for drinking water and leaving a floater in the loo.
 
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Teh_Next said:
I worked as a comms engineer and got paid well but not near THAT level of well. My mate who I worked beside broke away to do his own thing, he and I were the only two folk in Scotland that were doing wireless RFID surveys. He now has big contracts with News Corp, often flying up and down to London to do work in one of their main offices. He gets pad extremely well but it still evidences what you're saying as a load of old danglies.
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Not sure of the specifics, but I think he also wrote his own interlink code maybe that's what differentiated him (or maybe not), but my manager told me that's what they were paying him, quite why I don't know. I am just the dogsbody in the company and have never earned above £10/hour from salaried work.
 
Teh_Next said:
Friend 19: sold his bottom for 50p to a sailor. He told his twenty friends and two weeks later friend 19 had £10.50 he bought some haemorrhoid cream and soothed his aching bum grapes which inspired the idea of buying his own bun grape cream factory. Twenty years later he still has the same dream as his looks fade and he can no longer charge 50p for his bottom, he also has chronic loose stools. He is a realist though and knows it was just a dream.
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This is just plain rude and actually quite disrespectful, I was just making the point that any normal person with the right attitude and ideas can make it in life and business without looking at other people in awe. Thanks for your contribution anyway (if it all you can call it that).
 
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200sols said:
Try and make your 'stories' more believable next time then ;)
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Though I may not earn more than £10/hour salaried, thanks to my dealings, technically I am now a wealthy land owner so no more experiences. I will just get on with the job in hand.. like the royals

/growls

Now clean my boots peasant! (In the queens English of course ;))
 
dowie said:
If you believe that then you might well be seriously overestimating the figures in the examples you've given for some of your friends too. Like the dog walker apparently making £400-£500 a day from 7-10 dogs...
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I was just quoting a guy who thanks to the 2up rule made 140k, betting as you know is tax free. Regarding the dogs, they were not ‘common’ clients and needed whole day, I counted 8 last time from 8am to 2pm = £10 per hour x 6 hours x 8 dogs = £480 so only £20 off
 
dowie said:
I'm aware of the thread thanks, I'm not aware of someone in that thread making 140k a year from matched betting, perhaps I missed it as it's a big thread indeed. But it seems unlikely that the claim is true and you've provided nothing else like which poster it was, roughly when this supposedly happened. For example are you sure it isn't say 140k in total AND he's been doing it for years including some period where it was far more lucrative?

This is the issue perhaps with your post about your friends - I suspect you're exaggerating and have got some details plain wrong. You also didn't seem to realise when questioned that 140k might be a rather unusual amount to make (per year) from matched betting but just carried on with the claim as though it was true.

Edit - I've found it via google, unless it is someone else you are mistaken:

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/32255860/
"Just following up from this. 3 years and about 3 months later I've made nearly £140,000"

He's not made 140k a year from matched betting. This is my point about the various other things you've listed, that one was easy to pick as it was verifiable whereas the others are anecdotes about unknown people - you've quite likely IMO got the details wrong or perhaps have extrapolated some annual or ongoing amount from perhaps a particularly good day etc.. the dog walker getting £500 a day for example etc..etc..
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Well spotted, it was just off the top of the head as I read it ages ago just to highlight people can make good money doing other things, of course I do not know the specifics or even how he makes it on 2up as I only made 3k from Match betting. I’m even surprised I remembered they made 140k to be honest.

Just one problem with the logic however, I don’t know this guy at all other than a line or two from a forum post about his claims, but I do know my friends. I was with my dog walking friend’s new helper at lunchtime for 2mins whilst I got some Chips asking him if he enjoyed the work and if he ever got tired. I didn’t recognise him, but he recognised me, he had 4 leashes per hand and the dogs were quite small, yapping away. In short, I know my friends but not this guy, next you will say I am exaggerating too. As much as I would like to give you my solicitors details, tr1 land registry docs and accepted mortgage offers for new build and commercial property, my brokers details, complete with business account details, and receipt from transferwise along with my biometric Touch ID for my bank abroad, with the tenants references, and lease agreement. This is way too private for this forum.

Just accept people can make good money with hard work, the right attitude and sensible investments. That was the long and short of it. If you don’t believe my friends made good money then don’t, I have been to their houses - the best I have been too was complete with a private guard service for the estate, basketball court at the front and swimming pool at the back, his neighbours houses were equally big but had different configurations. I need a signed visitors badge to enter. Without revealing the exact location, it’s safe to say it’s near a famous shopping centre in the north.

Or would you prefer that no one in life makes it, and sits around waiting for the Royals to make a new baby - quite sad really.
 
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dowie said:
I'm not disputing the idea that people can make good money, I'm pointing out that your list is probably flawed, as demonstrated the one thing you cite that we can verify has turned out to be completely wrong. I've already made my point there, I don't need nor particularly want details of all your friends businesses etc...

The larger point perhaps is this idea of pretending it is easy to make large sums of money - this message that even the dog walker can earn six figures is flawed and not representative of reality at all. It is possible, but rather unlikely that an individual could make £500 a day walking dogs... it is also rather plausible that you've got some details wrong just as we've seen you do when mentioning matched betting.

Likewise just mentioning that you've got a mate who works in IT and now makes XXXX a day isn't really informative, sure there are people who make that much from contracting, more common though is for contractors to make a three figure daily rate... that tends to be typical in London for a dev/BA/PM etc.. that in itself isn't something everyone can do, getting to a 4 figure daily rate as an individual contractor is somewhat harder and tends to require a very specialist skill set or experience managing big projects. Are you in some cases confusing what they're billed out for and what they actually get to see from that amount for example.

Yes some people make large sums of money, no one is disputing that they exist, most people won't become wealthy though and it isn't just down to lack of hard work, luck also plays a big factor, perhaps more so the lower the skill of the person involved. Even assuming your dog walker analogy is true for example the vast majority of dog walkers won't be earning six figures regardless of whether they work hard at it and/or attempt to target only rich people etc...
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Ok, that is your view which I respect. Regarding the IT contractor, my manager told me that is what they are paying him, how its being billed I am not privy too, it’s possible my manager is mistaken though he does have to raise the purchase order for this? But it doesn't surprise me, the 'official' software trainer for the company charges £1200/day plus expenses to come in, so they prefer freelancers who are ex-company at £750/day basic training only or £1050/day with configuration support

Regarding the dog walker, the truth is in my area everyone charges £10 a dog walk but for 1 hour only, and they are 14yr olds most of the time. My friend bought the client list from a female dog walk business owner who only kept the cream and got rid of the others as it’s too much hassle on petrol etc for 1-2hrs (chump change). And who is the cream exactly, people who can afford £60 a day to babysit a dog for a day, she built the list over years not months for reference and wanted to open a boutique instead. The truth is £400-500 per day is his average wage, on good days he makes £700-800 (using his helper as well! They do half half occasionally when his legs aren't playing up! That is the downside BTW!)

Anybody who dog walks knows the truth! Ask any local dog walking business. My wife has made £140 a day babysitting 2 kids ocassionally, just add 4 more kids and she would make nearly £500/day as well. It’s not that hard but we don’t have the room for more! Plus it's a hassle for inspections as they won't allow more for the space available.

My next door neighbour makes £600/day, wait for this.. delivering sofas! He told me he gets paid per job (man and van) but has to start 6am each mornings and finishes 8-9pm but says it’s worth it. Don’t ask me for references but he just bought a new 5 series for his wife and q7 for himself so I have no reason to disbelieve him, he is now looking for a warehouse unit to invest in for a side income.

My kitchen fitter quoted me 4K to fit over 5 days with two people. Told him to take a running leap coz I ain’t paying £400/day each. My flag resin pointing guy quoted me £1200 at first but now says he wants £1750 for 3 days work as its more work then first thought. £1750/3 = £583/day. Also told him to jump. A popular national company quoted me 4.5k (after 20% discount) for a new glass bannister fitted in 1 day, said no thanks, swing and slide patio door guy quoted me 3k and 1 day to fit. Told him to take a leap as well. First parquet floor guy quoted £1800 for two rooms over 3 days. Accepted quote from a local guy for £450 to fit. My tiler wanted £580 to tile over two days. Got it done for £170 with someone else. Do you see a pattern here? People are free to charge what they like, it’s down to the customer to accept or not. My Neighbour opposite but one just paid wait for it 7k for new soffits and facias only! I could have got the roof done as well for that much and there were two people and only took two and a half days. Had to pay my Electrican nearly £576 this week to fit 12 spotlights, he only took 7 hours to do it, the materials were mine well (minus the wiring), the cheeky monkey! He charged £40 PER spotlight, and 20% VAT! And he had a 2nd job booked in elsewhere that day!! My mother paid 7.5k to British gas last year to install two Worcester Bosch boilers with pipework!! (one for water, one for heating due to the pipe lengths, and number of bathrooms, I'm sure a local company would have done it for 4.5k!). These are not south prices either, they are north!
 
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dowie said:
I don't really know what the point you're trying to make is here, even if we were to believe you it isn't representative of the reality for most nor is it achievable for most even if they wanted to.



You can't just extrapolate from that. Its like me saying my mate made £800 for 20 mins at a standup comedy gig for a corporate event, If he booked 3 of those a night he could make 1600 a day, for only an hour's work... back in the real world it doesn't work like that. Just because someone once made £140 from babysitting in a day or X amount for some specific event doesn't mean they can achieve that on an ongoing basis.

That is the sort of flawed thinking that will quickly get a reality check if people try to set up a business on that basis.



I don't know what you're trying to achieve here by listing even more anecdotes of people that, even if the anecdotes were true, are clearly earning well above what is normal or even realistic in spite of the effort put in for those sorts of businesses.

Back in reality no you're not going to make £500 - £600 a day from dog walking, babysitting or making yourself available as a man with a van.
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You are right, for some people it is not achievable if they have no desire to succeed (Angilion), but for arguments sake try this:

1. Ring your local professional babysitter and say - how much for say 5 hours? Let me know what they quote you. Be honest, and next time you see one, count how many other kids are there?
2. Ring your local professional dog walker and say - how much for say 2 hours? Let me know what they quote you. Be honest, and next time you see one, count how many other leads they have in their hands?
3. Ring your local professional man & van e.g. Ricky's nationwide - ask how much to pay up a chandalier from an Ebay customer. Be honest, and next time you see one, count the number of parcels in the back?

The fact is you cannot run a professional business with 1 parcel, 1 child or 1 dog at a time. You are talking teenager job level, not professional adult business level. Even my local gardener charges £35 per hour for two hours work usually, and claims 'expert' status!

Also, I think I have to accept the fact that you think my neighbour is a fool, my dog walker friend is a fool and my wife is a fool, so be it. Out of interest, what do you drive? This will reveal all I suspect.

I will show my hand first:

Wife: Mercedes CLA AMG model (white) - 18 plate
Dog Walker: Jaguar F Type (red) - private plate & ford galaxy (dog transporter - blue) - around 10-13 plate I believe
Neighbour: Audi Q7 (black) - private plate + BMW 5 series (black) - private plate + White van (not sure what plate)
 
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Firestar_3x said:
BS meter aside, I find it somewhat comical that you know the apparent financial inns and outs of loads of your "friends" businesses.

Anyway keep digging a hole, legend thread in the making.
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Fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion. The fact is if people do well in business, they quite often like to tell people how they got there to inspire them in the world of business and hard work. Watch Dragon's Den and the orange haired one if you don't believe me.
 
dowie said:
@Cryogenic Where have I said your neighbour is a fool and your dog walker friend is a fool? I'm still not sure what you're trying to achieve here - you don't seem to have grasped the point if you're asking me to do the flawed thing I've already pointed out is flawed, namely extrapolating from some snapshot of their business and assuming that the rate they earned in some small period of time is sustainable on an ongoing basis.

You've already shown that you've got things completely confused with the one example that could be verified, the matched betting one, I don't therefore have much faith in your anecdotes. I'm not sure what relevance the car I drive has to do with this?

Anyway - your individual friends/anecdotes aren't particularly useful here when others have collected data from multiple people in the business areas you talk about:

For example 48 individual babysitters:

https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Babysitter/Hourly_Rate

No where near the figures you claim

Likewise dog walkers - not to be sniffed at, they apparently earn more than the average salary but they're also no where near the figures you claim, they're around 26k.... in London! They can earn substantially more by keeping dogs overnight up to 64k... but again still no where near the £500 a day you're claiming:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...alkers-earn-64-000-year-trust-look-pooch.html
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Thank God you finally agree with me! Yes, these are absolutely the rates.

1. Wife charges £8.75/hr for 8hrs = £140 for brother and sister minus food costs - gets this gig once/twice a week, sometimes none during christmas and when parents go on holiday. Had a load of cheapskates before this, but this is a nice family
2. Dog walker - this figure stands @ £10/hr per dog. Existing clientel. New business probably would be a tenth of that, this is a running biz however with good well-to-do clients gained over time by the previous owner
3. Man and Van - the figure stands @ £75 for each sofa drop (but this includes minor assembly service), £40 extra for removals. £60 for man/van only service (North West only). Diary booked weeks in advance, but has to pay his drivers mate and diesel out of own pocket.

I think the whole point of the real life scenarios was to prove that if you work hard, you can become a land owning aristocrat too.
 
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dowie said:
I'm not sure why you're saying "finally" and then citing something that wasn't disputed in the first place like some hourly rate for dog walking or babysitting.

I'm not agreeing with you though, you've now ignored the fundamental issue here, where you do some handwaving and make claims about these rather mundane jobs generating £500 a day...



Well you've not proved that at all and looking at the data it isn't true, a typical babysitter is a low wage earner (often part time) and a dog walker, while earning above the national average is hardly raking it in.
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Think you're missing the point as well. I did mention the wife had a load of low key cheapskates before finding a good family for sitting purposes, it was just pot luck.

A typical dog walker will earn what you describe, likely less, but this is a professional dog walking business with one employer and one employee, servicing well off middle class clients only

My point is in any any business, you will get all sorts of crummy customers at first, but eventually you will build up an order book - this is where the money is, not when you start up! There is no money in startups!
 
Angilion said:
Which is why most people are land owning aristocrats, obviously. A bit of hard work for a few years at most and then free money and luxury for life, guaranteed! Of course most people do that. Sure beats working for a living.

Er...wait...why are almost all of these land owning aristocrats working as employees and keeping their titles and lands secret?


Hmm...I own land and I could buy a meaningless title. Lord of the Manor of somewhere, there's some of those for sale. But I don't think that counts.
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Take my example. I own land, but I still need to work in my less than £10/hr job to put food on the table. Any other income is reinvested, I will probably be working to 67 like anyone else, just my net worth will be slightly different. This is no different to they Royals, they own billions in land but have no salary I believe (could be totally wrong).
 
dowie said:
Working royals do get an annual salary. I'm not sure it is accurate to claim in general that they "own billions", the Queen's personal wealth tends to be valued in the hundreds of millions, though obviously she has additional income from and access to assets way beyond what she personally owns.

The day to day costs are paid from the 15% of the income from the Crown Estate that the government pays to the Queen. The Queen also gets an annual income from other means such as the Duchy of Lancaster - this trust is worth around 500 million IIRC, this income (about 20 million a year) is used for private expenditure.

Prince Charles similarly gets an annual income from the Duchy of Cornwall, this trust is worth more like 1 billion IIRC. He doesn't own it though nor have it for the whole of his life, when he gets the throne William will get an income from the Duchy of Cornwall and Charles will get one from the Duchy of Lancaster.
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Thanks for confirming, Wikipedia was not particularly succinct on this count.
 
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