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The thread which sometimes talks about RDNA2

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james.miller said:
Yeah, he is, he has explicitly stated more than once that the output isnt the render, the original scene is. And that is wrong. Any stage of the pipeline can be broken down and it's output considered a render. You are agreeing with me but arguing that humbug is correct. He isnt!


Now who's playing semantics? We are discussing an image being created buy a GPU. In the context of the discussion, zx is correct.
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He's really not. He has time and again argued that the GPU is not rendering at a lower resolution, and yet has just quoted text that says "by rendering the game at a lower internal resolution and then upscaling it."

Ref. humbug, I think it's turned into a slightly abstract argument but his initial point was correct. The gpu is not rendering at 4k, it is rendering at 2k and upscaling. It says it right there in zx's own post.
 
zx128k said:
The correct terms, well done. Basically DLSS is a better form of TAA which can also upscale the image as part of the process. You could call DLSS 2.0 the world’s best TAA implementation. It does not word like an upscaler. DLSS requires information from the games engine to work. The lower internal resolution rendered frame, the motion vectors, the depth buffer and the jitter for each frame. Then after that post processing takes place and then we move towards the final render we see.
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Almost all of us watching this thread are so bored of you right now. This thread has gone up pointlessly because of you. We all now fully GET you are a Jensen choir boy. So, preach in the Nvidia threads little one.

Move along now.
 
willhub said:
It's called compulsive pedantism.
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So we should ignore logical as that is to strict? What the hell, why do we care about the meaning of technical words. We will just redefine technical terms to be whatever we want it to be. So it fits are arguments. That way the wrong can be right and make up whatever arguments they want. Even sophistry with its core argument being the redifining of technical definitions. Technical definitions have a precise meaning.
 
Kamakazie! said:
He's really not. He has time and again argued that the GPU is not rendering at a lower resolution, and yet has just quoted text that says "by rendering the game at a lower internal resolution and then upscaling it."

Ref. humbug, I think it's turned into a slightly abstract argument but his initial point was correct. The gpu is not rendering at 4k, it is rendering at 2k and upscaling. It says it right there in zx's own post.
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People need to learn there difference between what the GPU renders and what the screen displays, they are independent of each other, the display cannot do the GPU's job, it can only display the image that the GPU has rendered for it.
 
Oh good god. This is ridiculous.

On a GPU, any output from any stage of the pipeline can be considered a 'render', that includes the final output.
ON a display, the input is rendered to the screen. If the input is upscaled or downscaled, it's done before the final 'render'.

It doesnt matter what the original image is. It doesnt matter what happens at any point in that process. If you disagree with any of that then you are ignorant and you need to educate yourself. As far as the GPU goes, it's called a RENDERING pipeline for a reason and the last stage of that pipeline is the frame buffer, which contains the final output from the GPU after it's been scaled by whatever process it uses.
 
zx128k said:
TLDR: DLSS 2.0 is the world’s best TAA implementation. It really is an incredible technology and can offer huge performance uplifts (+20-120%) by rendering the game at a lower internal resolution and then upscaling it. It does this while avoiding many of the problems that TAA usually exhibits like ghosting, smearing, and shimmering. While it doesn’t require per-game training, it does require some work from the game developer to implement. If they are already using TAA, the effort is relatively small. Due to its AI architecture and fixed per frame overhead, its benefits are limited at higher fps and it’s more useful at higher resolutions. However, at low fps the performance uplift can be enormous, from 34 to 68 fps in Wolfenstein at 4K+RTX on a 2060.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/fvgl4w/how_dlss_20_works_for_gamers/
To implement DLSS2, a game designer will need to use Nvidia’s library in place of their native TAA. This library requires as input: the lower resolution rendered frame, the motion vectors, the depth buffer, and the jitter for each frame. It feeds these into the deep learning algorithm and returns a higher resolution image. The game engine will also need to change the jitter of the lower resolution render each frame and use high resolution textures. Finally, the game’s post processing effects, like depth of field and motion blur, will need to be scaled up to run on the higher resolution output from DLSS. These changes are relatively small, especially for a game already using TAA or dynamic resolution. However, they will require work from the developer and cannot be implemented by Nvidia.
DLSS replaces TAA in the graphic pipline. Post processing is afterwards.
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DLSS replaces TAA in the graphic pipline. Post processing is afterwards.
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what are you saying now?
 
james.miller said:
Oh good god. This is ridiculous.

On a GPU, any output from any stage of the pipeline can be considered a 'render', that includes the final output.
ON a display, the input is rendered to the screen. If the input is upscaled or downscaled, it's done before the final 'render'.

It doesnt matter what the original image is. It doesnt matter what happens at any point in that process. If you disagree with any of that then you are ignorant and you need to educate yourself. As far as the GPU goes, it's called a RENDERING pipeline for a reason and the last stage of that pipeline is the frame buffer, which contains the final output from the GPU after it's been scaled by whatever process it uses.
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In the context of graphics why would you pick the screen as the renderer?
 
james.miller said:
Oh good god. This is ridiculous.

On a GPU, any output from any stage of the pipeline can be considered a 'render', that includes the final output.
ON a display, the input is rendered to the screen. If the input is upscaled or downscaled, it's done before the final 'render'.

It doesnt matter what the original image is. It doesnt matter what happens at any point in that process. If you disagree with any of that then you are ignorant and you need to educate yourself. it's called a RENDERING pipeline for a reason and the last stage of that pipeline is the frame buffer, which contains the final output from the GPU.
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The final output image from a GPU is called the render. If you remove DLSS and post proccessing and output that as the final image. That to can become the render.

Rendering or image synthesis is the process of generating a photorealistic or non-photorealistic image from a 2D or 3D model by means of a computer program. The resulting image is referred to as the render.
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Anything before the render is the rendering process. By stating the resulting image, they imply the final output of the rendering proccess. DLSS is part of the rendering process. Thus the render is the final output of DLSS, if there are no post processing or other unknown processes left. DLSS is not like an upscaler. It does increase the resolution but it also replaces TAA. The way it works is not like a simple upscaler, it requires information from the graphics engine in addition to the internal resolution rendered image.

To implement DLSS2, a game designer will need to use Nvidia’s library in place of their native TAA. This library requires as input: the lower resolution rendered frame, the motion vectors, the depth buffer, and the jitter for each frame. It feeds these into the deep learning algorithm and returns a higher resolution image.

We would not consider TAA as not part of the final rendered image, why would we then consider DLSS as different simply because it will upscale the resolution as well. In future all the graphics will be done by AI and the current methods will be redundant. DLSS is the start of the process.


Even so DLSS does a really good job of increasing the resolution and is in many ways better than the native.

 
james.miller said:
Just read back your own posts. Lol.
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You brought the screen to it. Right here
james.miller said:
Only if you change the meaning of the word, sure. render means provide, make or represent. All of those terms can be applied to the final image that reaches the display. How you get there might change, sure, but that's irrelevant. As is arguing over this point to be perfectly honest.
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Since then i have been trying to explain the Screen has nothing to do with the image the GPU renders.
 
james.miller said:
Really humbug, that's how you read that? Awesome mental gymnastics, that.
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Its how i read this..

james.miller said:
Doesnt matter how you get there, i've already said that. You're arguing that the original image is the render. That is not the case. The final image is, and that includes any pre/post processing steps taken to get there. Your argument only works if you change the meaning of the word render and even if that were acceptable, which it isnt, it's still a crappy argument.
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The original image is the render, in this context.
 
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

I almost never use it but I think the ignore button is the way to go here.
 
Got the following message just now from Sapphire when enquiring about availability in the UK:

Dear Sir :
We've double checked with our shipment part that RX6800 series will be very limited till rest of this year due to GPU shortage.

Customers need to wait unless there is a significant improvement in GPU supply.
Thanks.


If you have any further questions or download attachment, please click the URL to raise your additional requirements and questions and we will reply to you as soon as possible.

https://support.sapphiretech.com/ticket-record.asp?id=6496C1AA-EBE1-42E6-8012-D7303FAC643D

SAPPHIRE Technology Support Team

www.sapphiretech.com

Looks like its clearly an AMD issue.

Couldn't snip the actual email as this forum doesn't allow direct upload of pics.
 
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