The thread which sometimes talks about RDNA2

[Chuk_Chuk]

That's my arguement, people don't understand the tech we have today, .

and you do? That's a bold statement to make. Do you want to back it up?

I'm playing Cyberpunk 2077, which does look great without, but with RT on and I'm blown away.

Blown away is relative. Part of what effects it, is people's personnal experience and details that they prefer and notice. Some people notice geometry, some people notice textures, some people notice lights and some people notice FPS counters.
People seem to forget that you could have playing around with Raytracing at home for the better part of a decade. The person you were talking to works with RT 8 hours a day 5 days a week for who knows how long. Do you honestly think that his bar for being blown away is the same as yours?
I spend my free time browsing artstation and playing around in Blender (since the days of right click to select and no save dialog on exit). I know that my bar is skewered because of it.

 

[Wrinkly]

Yeah sorry I just don't agree with this assertation at all or believe that rasterization performance is only the low end side at all. You clearly have your opinion on RT being the next big thing but are not correct in dismissing the here and now. We are still years away from good implementation of RT that is effective and works as intended. All of tomorrows games are also not suddenly just going to be RT only and thus you can also run them in rasterization as well and I would rather that than the performance hit we currently have with RT. So yeah another generation easy before this is important in my view.

I have mentioned before, I use programs daily that do raytracing etc, but what we have in games is not where it needs to be for the benefits. You can get 90% the fidelity without it whilst maintaining about double the performance. That is not a good trade off in my view. We will get another generation of cards by the time this really comes forward from what we have. And that is best case timeframe. I don't expect RDNA2 to ever improve enough this gen to even consider turning it on. RDNA3 possibly but also not likely as they would literally have to double their RT performance next gen to even start competing with Nvidia. Maybe the gen after there will be enough of a performance gain to make it relevant for me. I have to say from everyone I have spoken too and game with directly that none of us have any views that RT is important. I am glad you like it but don't dismiss what some prefer to your views and say it is all rubbish/low end.

I thought I said that high end cards all do rasterisation fast enough that it's become less important. I also point out that ALL the big players see RT as the next big thing, so not just my opinion. As far as titles now not having a good implementation, what about CP 2077, Control, Quake 2 RTX, Metro Exodus, Minecraft, etc.? No not all games will have RT, but the percentage is on the increase. Why would you ignore RT when you know that's where the industry is heading? That sound like head in the sand again.

I've already said that the RT implementation within Cyberpunk 2077 blows away what we have had in the past. It does the intended job by increasing immersion. Again I'm not alone in feeling that, yet here you are not having not played it saying it's not doing the job. Really?

All rubbish low end? I was suggesting that rasterisation performance is more important at the lower end. This is true as the low end cards are not going to do RT well if at all. Higher end cards by default already do rasterisation well.

My 3080 will be in the bin when Hopper/RDNA3 arrives, but until then I'll enjoy RT with it.

 

[montymint]

Its maybe how consoles can keep up but 1500 quid video cards?
Er nope, sticking plaster please.

I wouldnt mind but this RT and DLSS crap has got out of control, you shouldnt need to upscale on such an expensive bit of kit. Ok for a 3060 but a 3090?
You shouldnt need to watch 75% of your FPS drop off a cliff if you turn on RT.....

Seems familiar this, like we once had a "Crysis" with something??????? hmmm

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not fighting for DLSS - you're right in the sense it should be needed for top tier cards. But I do think it IS good for the mid-low tier to allow people to jump up in panel size without a double bite in cost (I wish DLSS was around 4 years ago when I went to 3440x1440 as the card I had at the time cried) and as I said , it helps those £450 consoles perform well on the tvs they are for and will look better than just downscaling.

I like you think RT is too much of a blow to fps to really be worth it unless your cheating your way into higher FPS with another tech. It'll make devs lazier in the long run.

 

[Wrinkly]

and you do? That's a bold statement to make. Do you want to back it up?

You think RT is not ready today, yet here I am playing a games with RT. Back it up with what?

Blown away is relative. Part of what effects it, is people's personnal experience and details that they prefer and notice. Some people notice geometry, some people notice textures, some people notice lights and some people notice FPS counters.
People seem to forget that you could have playing around with Raytracing at home for the better part of a decade. The person you were talking to works with RT 8 hours a day 5 days a week for who knows how long. Do you honestly think that his bar for being blown away is the same as yours?
I spend my free time browsing artstation and playing around in Blender (since the days of right click to select and no save dialog on exit). I know that my bar is skewered because of it.

Well I played around with my own RT code using A86, a free assembler, around 30 years ago. Does that make me more of an expert then? Of course it doesn't as it has nothing to do with RT being implemented in a game we can play with today. That guy working with a renderer 8 hours a day is claiming it's not good enough to increase immersion even though he hasn't played it BTW. watching a FPS counter in a game is not going to help immersion.

We are talking about RT being used to enhance immersion in a a game, which it does, and not just for me. Try it then come back and discuss your opinion.

 

[nvidiamd]

I like you think RT is too much of a blow to fps to really be worth it unless your cheating your way into higher FPS with another tech. It'll make devs lazier in the long run.

It will happen. And also we will pay the same or even more for smaller native performance increase each generation. Since fake res is " better than native", you will hear that everywhere.

 

[montymint]

It will happen. And also we will pay the same or even more for smaller native performance increase each generation. Since fake res is " better than native", you will hear that everywhere.

 

[DeathStorm]

It's fair to ask anyone buying RDNA2, why buy next gen that doesn't do next gen well? You know something is wrong when you get the answer 'because HU says'. To keep a balance, Didn't AMD rightly so drop Jayztwocents at one point?

Well next gen is dictated by what developers actually design for, why are you so sure that won't be RDNA2 with their console presence?

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

You think RT is not ready today because it offers small visual gains for a huge performance penalty and is therefore not worth the trade off, yet here I am playing a games with RT. Back it up with what?

FTFY

Well I played around with my own RT code using A86, a free assembler, around 30 years ago. Does that make me more of an expert then?Of course it doesn't as it has nothing to do with RT being implemented in a game we can play with today.

Where in my post did i discuss people being an expert in RT? If you think that is what i was talking about then you've missed by point by about 2 solar systems.
I was talking about people being blown away by the visual end product of RT and peoples bar being different. I threw in a few examples to help explain why people are different.

That guy working with a renderer 8 hours a day is claiming it's not good enough to increase immersion even though he hasn't played it BTW.

He didn't say that go re read his posts.

We are talking about RT being used to enhance immersion in a a game, which it does, and not just for me. Try it then come back and discuss your opinion.

Moving goal posts are we.

watching a FPS counter in a game is not going to help immersion.

You must be fun at parties.

 

[Gregster]

From my experience, RT is well worth it and something that I want more of. I appreciate it lacks in games for now but with AMD on board, it will soon be part and parcel like Tessellation etc. I did a stint earlier in CP2077 without RT to see the difference and I will hold my hands up and say "it looks so damned good without it" But when I turned it back on, wow, made a huge visual difference but yea, it does come at a fps cost and whilst not a game breaker, I could see if I was playing at 4K instead of UW, I would need a faster GPU.

 

[Curlyriff]

That guy working with a renderer 8 hours a day is claiming it's not good enough to increase immersion even though he hasn't played it .

We are talking about RT being used to enhance immersion in a a game, which it does, and not just for me. Try it then come back and discuss your opinion.

I have literally told you that I have indeed played with it. Maybe you missed it or ignored it I don't think the hype for it lives up and there plenty of issues with it, Control had big issues with at times missing reflections at all when they should be there. However there are lots problems with the raytracing with issues still such as wrong light sources being utilised or the primary. Materials that don't work with RT because their base material parameters are wrong so light casting doesn't work correctly with them such as those wine glasses in Quake. There lots of thoughts and bugs where things still need to be worked out and be shown correctly.

With that I stand by that although it can be immersive if done correctly we are not there yet.

as far as seeing rasterisation performance, sure that can be important on the low end side

That is the statement I took issue with because first and foremost for all levels of performance that should be the most important because that is by far the majority of what people are playing with because unsurprisingly there are only a handful of games with RT at moment and so a lot of people are still playing games that are out without RT and games that are to come out that wont have RT.

If you are going to respond at least read the posts properly and don't dismiss text because it doesn't suit your view.

 

[Wrinkly]

Well next gen is dictated by what developers actually design for, why are you so sure that won't be RDNA2 with their console presence?

I would expect developers to maximise sales. That would be best done by developing for DirectX and it's components. This also leaves a traversable path to Playstion and Mac given the experience gained over the past years.

I really don't want PC gaming to be held back by consoles.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

Maximise sales means optimising for console as they are the vast majority of sales. No-one going to go down the route of PC exclusivity we are an afterthought at best.

 

[Wrinkly]

I have literally told you that I have indeed played with it. Maybe you missed it or ignored it I don't think the hype for it lives up and there plenty of issues with it, Control had big issues with at times missing reflections at all when they should be there. However there are lots problems with the raytracing with issues still such as wrong light sources being utilised or the primary. Materials that don't work with RT because their base material parameters are wrong so light casting doesn't work correctly with them such as those wine glasses in Quake. There lots of thoughts and bugs where things still need to be worked out and be shown correctly.

With that I stand by that although it can be immersive if done correctly we are not there yet.

That is the statement I took issue with because first and foremost for all levels of performance that should be the most important because that is by far the majority of what people are playing with because unsurprisingly there are only a handful of games with RT at moment and so a lot of people are still playing games that are out without RT and games that are to come out that wont have RT.

If you are going to respond at least read the posts properly and don't dismiss text because it doesn't suit your view.

Sorry, missed it. I've only just started on Control as I held of for 'useable' RT. I'd agree it has some rough edges such as destroyed furniture leaving a baked in shadow. Wouldn't you agree though that with RT it was more immersive?

I'm not saying that rasterisation performance is not important on high end cards, I was suggesting it is now less important as they all trade blows while being fast enough. What is important now is picking the best feature set, which I think is still true, even more so since we have competitive pricing at the moment.

 

[Shaz12]

Surely DLSS is just a stop gap because the hardware isnt powerful enough without it, once the hardware is powerful enough we dont really need DLSS style cheating.

Surely DLSS is just a stop gap because the hardware isnt powerful enough without it, once the hardware is powerful enough we dont really need DLSS style cheating.

It will be used as a crutch to improve performance instead of doing proper optimisation in future.

 

[FoxEye]

Maximise sales means optimising for console as they are the vast majority of sales. No-one going to go down the route of PC exclusivity we are an afterthought at best.

Don't say that too loud, there are plenty here who think the devs just move a slider to the right a bit and *bam* PC has great RT well in excess of the consoles

 

[RBImGuy]

Told the ocuk experts here about this months ago.
They said, I was wrong.
So much for your experts....

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20201211PD200.html

 

[HRL]

From my experience, RT is well worth it and something that I want more of. I appreciate it lacks in games for now but with AMD on board, it will soon be part and parcel like Tessellation etc. I did a stint earlier in CP2077 without RT to see the difference and I will hold my hands up and say "it looks so damned good without it" But when I turned it back on, wow, made a huge visual difference but yea, it does come at a fps cost and whilst not a game breaker, I could see if I was playing at 4K instead of UW, I would need a faster GPU.

And that is precisely why although I wanted a 6900XT, I’m now waiting for the 3090FE to restock.

A great 4K OLED is exactly that, great, having to spend ridiculous sums to get the required performance to runs games at full whack however is not.

 

[nvidiamd]

Can reference 6800xt overclocked beat Asus TUF 3090 OC at 4k?

Notice the 3090 system is on a 5950x CPU, the 6800xt system is on a 3950x CPU. Not that it matters too much at 4k but that means no SAM enabled.

 

[Grim5]

Can reference 6800xt overclocked beat Asus TUF 3090 OC at 4k?

Notice the 3090 system is on a 5950x CPU, the 6800xt system is on a 3950x CPU. Not that it matters too much at 4k but that means no SAM enabled.

The answer is no

 

[nvidiamd]

The answer is no

True but it gets very close. And this shows how well designed the 6800xt reference card is. The 6900xt reference is very bad and no one should buy that. They should not buy 3090FE or 3080 FE either but that is a different story.