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The thread which sometimes talks about RDNA2

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Soldato
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So when do you think we might be able to get hold of some of these purely theoretical 6800 series, anyhow?

I mean theorycraft is all very well, but right now these things don't exist as far as most of us can tell.

I think my March estimate was too optimistic. Going for July/August now :p AMD, do you think you could make some cards by then? Maybe?

I think we need to look at the Ryzen 5000 range for a reasonable idea of when availability of 6800 GPUs will improve. Ryzen 5000 was relased roughly 3 weeks before RX 6000 and we only reached the point where you can buy a Ryzen 5000 from mainstream tech retailers at close to MSRP. So all things considered I would expect end of Jan before we can pick up a 6800 with reasonable chance of success.
 
Soldato
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I find the difference between physically realistic and 'adequate' to be a game changer. Comparable? What do you even mean by that? I can compare games I was playing on my ZX81 to games today, but that doens't mean I want to go back to 1981. Nor do I want to go back to playing games without RT. AMD, Apple, Intel, Microsoft, Nvidia, Sony and even Hollywood all seem to agree, but you carry on with your pitchfork waving :rolleyes:

I think you are overplaying the lighting in Cyberpunk because at no point have I ever turned on RT to max and thought, "this looks real". Improved yes but not realistic and certainly not a game changer. You also keep bringing the discussion back to lighting and ignoring the other aspects such as non-RT water reflections and details which have massively regressed. CP2077 is not in any way a "wow" for graphics with me, it actually looks "meh" regardless of how much RT is tgrown at it.
  • Poor animations for both player, cars and NPC
  • Severe pop-up
  • Crap water with RT disabled, it looks flat and lifeless.
  • With RT on the water looks about the same as what has gone previously in the past 5 years or before RT existed. Please don't try to say otherwise because the screenshots of RDR2 and even Witcher 3 show this all too well.
 
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Associate
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I was under the impression that you had played it? The lighting.
So that's all you can say about it? The lighting is physically realistic and we are to take wrinklys word for it despite it looking like every other game.

I do play the game but with ray tracing off. As it offers nothing special for the performance impact it has.
 
Soldato
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People will just be glad to have something, anything, and the 2021 GPUs will be even more in demand! Not sure that AMD would see this as a bad thing. Keep demand high, stock low, prices high..

AMD can't run a business like that, they need to ship 20 million GPU's (of various flavours) in the first 12 weeks next year just to hit the previous years target. That target is 10 million less than what they shipped in 2014.

You need to ask yourself, AMD have shipped about a dozen 6900XT's to forum members here, its unusually and historically low.

AMD cannot function like this, its just a temporary supply chain blip.
 
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So that's all you can say about it? The lighting is physically realistic and we are to take wrinklys word for it despite it looking like every other game.

I do play the game but with ray tracing off. As it offers nothing special for the performance impact it has.

No you don't have to take just my word for it. You can learn about how lighting behaves and then how it's being implemented using RT. It's just entry level physics.
 
Caporegime
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CAn't understand what happened to enthusiasts that were enthusiastic about all PC tech, Red or Green, helping with settings on older tech. Hell, even an LCD hater just up the page as they like to feel superior with an OLED. STOP buying LCD rubbish - Whut?

This forum used to be a goldmine of help and knowledge - now it's a minefield of one-upmanship.

That's because it's true :p

People keep buying into ridiculous ££££ lcd monitors and they are ultimately hurting true advancement of monitors in the long run.

Monitor manufacturers have no reason to release better display tech. when people keep lapping up these ££££ LCD monitors, "oh but 240/360hz, oh but even higher PPI/res., oh but edge lit HDR, HDR400, HDR 600, HDR1000" etc. etc. At the end of the day, it is all drip fed pointless minor advancements just to keep people paying into an endless broken system, once sales slow down entirely, then that is when we will hopefully get the true "upgrades" in the monitor display industry, either that, or LG release a 27-38" OLED monitor for a sensible price, which will end the ££££ LCD monitor market once and for all.

The same way these retailers/manufacturers will not lower the pricing of PC parts to their MSRP because people keep throwing money at them...


Reason I'm so vocal about oled vs lcd is because some people have no clue on what they are missing out on, you see all these people buying 3090s etc. to achieve the best graphics possible then pairing them up with a lcd monitor... Meanwhile the ones playing on oleds with the likes of a vega 56/64/1080/1070 etc. are actually the ones who are enjoying the superior graphics/IQ.

EDIT:

Also, the whole point was in relation to DLSS etc., if monitors were better i.e. had scalers as good as most TVs, DLSS etc. wouldn't be as cried out for then.
 
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No you don't have to take just my word for it. You can learn about how lighting behaves and then how it's being implemented using RT. It's just entry level physics.
Are you talking about real life now or cyberpunks attempt at real time ray tracing?
 
Caporegime
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PC monitors are complete **** compared to even non-OLED TVs.

And massively expensive. No signs of any improvement any time soon tho.

Even for >£1000 they can't make a monitor with decent uniformity or without tons of backlight bleeding. It's still very much a lottery, at all price ranges.

And edge-lit "local dimming" (lol) needs to die in a fire.
 
Associate
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PC monitors are complete **** compared to even non-OLED TVs.

And massively expensive. No signs of any improvement any time soon tho.

Gaming with oled also not good. Especially dark scenes are completely gets black. There is no perfect display exits, there are always cons and pros.
 
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:confused:
How have you drawn that conclusion?
Demon Souls doesn't support DLSS so you don't know how well DLSS would do in that game.
My conclusion is that DLSS is better than any other upscaling solution including the ones used in next gen consoles.
 
Soldato
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No you don't have to take just my word for it. You can learn about how lighting behaves and then how it's being implemented using RT. It's just entry level physics.

Lol I think most people have two eyes and can see videos of RT in action rather than take your 'heavily biased' word for it. There is no major difference unless you start to stop and carefully look at every minute detail. The reflections are the only thing that stands out and even then it's because the devs have severely downgraded SSR compared to most other games in existence. The blur in the SSR effects is not a by-product of SSR but an intentional blur put in by the devs.
 
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I think you are overplaying the lighting in Cyberpunk because at no point have I ever turned on RT to max and thought, "this looks real". Improved yes but not realistic and certainly not a game changer. You also keep bringing the discussion back to lighting and ignoring the other aspects such as non-RT water reflections and details which have massively regressed. CP2077 is not in any way a "wow" for graphics with me, it actually looks "meh" regardless of how much RT is tgrown at it.
  • Poor animations for both player, cars and NPC
  • Severe pop-up
  • Crap water with RT disabled, it looks flat and lifeless.
  • With RT on the water looks about the same as what has gone previously in the past 5 years or before RT existed. Please don't try to say otherwise because the screenshots of RDR2 and even Witcher 3 show this all too well.

I've not said anything about water in Cyberpunk because I've not looked at water in Cyberpunk. I've not at any point suggested that the game is perfect or have I even defended it's bad points, but it's the first game, with RT maxed, that looks cohesive, physically realistic to me. I'm excited by what RT can do and want to see more of it. And as I've said before all the big players in IQ are developing RT. There must be a reason for that?

It's a shame we can't turn RT on in The Witcher or RDR2 as the difference in quality may surprise you.
 
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Absolutely the point I was making and could easily have brought up the older PhysX games. It's an old Nvidia marketing ploy and people arer still falling for it. There is no way the standard water in CP2077 is anything other than gimped compared to what could have been done. The question then becomes is it ineptitude or by design.

How anyone can look at CP2007 water with RT on/off then proclaim RT awesome is just perplexing to be fair. I think those people need to take a step back and look at the screenshots from older games to see actual comparisons.
The shadows are also dumbed down to the point they look laughable.
Not to mention when your char shadow gets into that silly T-pose thing. That looks awesome! :D
 
Caporegime
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After seeing horizon zero dawn on pc in 60 fps (looked great on the ps 4 pro but 30 fps is awful), I badly want to see TLOU 2 come to pc now as well, that game is something else entirely!

 
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The shadows are also dumbed down to the point they look laughable.
Not to mention when your char shadow gets into that silly T-pose thing. That looks awesome! :D
Much immersion. Such accurate. Wow.

This game is released 6 months too soon, I think that's fairly clear by now.
 
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Lol I think most people have two eyes and can see videos of RT in action rather than take your 'heavily biased' word for it. There is no major difference unless you start to stop and carefully look at every minute detail. The reflections are the only thing that stands out and even then it's because the devs have severely downgraded SSR compared to most other games in existence. The blur in the SSR effects is not a by-product of SSR but an intentional blur put in by the devs.

Oddly I didn't stop to look at the difference until people asked for screen shots. I really didn't expect there to such a large difference. I've said from the start that RT is best experianced first hand just as VR is. I said many times that screen shots and videos don't do it justice as you lack the understanding of the environment.
 
Soldato
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Reason I'm so vocal about oled vs lcd is because some people have no clue on what they are missing out on, you see all these people buying 3090s etc. to achieve the best graphics possible then pairing them up with a lcd monitor... Meanwhile the ones playing on oleds with the likes of a vega 56/64/1080/1070 etc. are actually the ones who are enjoying the superior graphics/IQ.n.
Reminds me of Coreteks summary at the end of one of his reviews. Don't buy a new GPU, buy an OLED TV and thank me later.

My conclusion is that DLSS is better than any other upscaling solution including the ones used in next gen consoles.
If that is really what you are trying to say then you worded it terribly.
 
Associate
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Oddly I didn't stop to look at the difference until people asked for screen shots. I really didn't expect there to such a large difference. I've said from the start that RT is best experianced first hand just as VR is. I said many times that screen shots and videos don't do it justice as you lack the understanding of the environment.
I admit that RT reflections look cool. But as you see there are ways to do it without RT:
Now what is the reason to claim that a game is using real time RT if you destroy the static geometry and the reflections won't show you that? Where is the realism?
 
Caporegime
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Reminds me of Coreteks summary at the end of one of his reviews. Don't buy a new GPU, buy an OLED TV and thank me later.
Would *love* to. But I don't have room for both an OLED TV and a monitor.

And I can't use the OLED as a monitor, as I have the Windows UI on it for 8-10 hours a day.
 
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