The UN says the EU migrant crisis is largely the EU's own fault.

[Tefal]

My point is it suggests these aren't opportunistic migrants.

They have been driven outwards into neighbouring countries, from where they are trying to enter the EU.

but it doesn't suggest that at all.

you point that lots have crossed from Syria to turkey, doesn't suggest the vast numbers coming from north Africa across the med from Libya etc are Syrian too.

especially when saying their from Syria means they're more likely to get refugee status.


for example if i say "everyone here who is from Wales I'll give 50 quid to"

"so who here is from Wales?"


i don't think i could say the answers would be accurate.

 

[muon]

There are large numbers in Lebanon and Jordan who would have to cross the Med.

Whilst there is an incentive for opportunistic migrants, there is no evidence that a significant proportion of Syrian refugees aren't Syrian.

 

[dowie]

So no, while there are legal and illegal economic migrants that are entering Europe, the vast majority are refugees fleeing war zones.

They're both really, they've successfully fled a warzone when they end up in Turkey or even simply end up in another, safer, part of their own country in the case of people from Iraq, Pakistan etc...

Its like if there was a civil war in the UK but it was mainly confined to London/the South East... say Royalists vs Parliamentarians when Corbyn manages a surprise election victory and announces he's forming a republic. Some UK refugees move to Northern England, Scotland, Wales... Some move to France... but then a bunch try to migrate through a whole load of safe European countries to the oil rich state of Qatar.

 

[Arazi]

The EU migrant crisis, is more the fault of the US and UK, for arming and creating ISIS, along with bombing the innocent people.............

I am sick of hearing this standard excuse to most of the worlds problems from you and others on here, it is getting laughable now.

 

[Tefal]

Whilst there is an incentive for opportunistic migrants, there is no evidence that a significant proportion of Syrian refugees aren't Syrian.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ars-85-year-just-one-five-war-torn-Syria.html


4 out of 5 arnt according to this one..

German officials estimate it to be 1 third

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...e704fe-616d-11e5-8475-781cc9851652_story.html


no one has papers they are just having to take them on thier word, so theres no evidence either way.

 

[muon]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ars-85-year-just-one-five-war-torn-Syria.html


4 out of 5 arnt according to this one..

German officials estimate it to be 1 third

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...e704fe-616d-11e5-8475-781cc9851652_story.html


no one has papers they are just having to take them on thier word, so theres no evidence either way.

So that is exactly my point.

We know there are 6m+ Syrian migrants in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan.

So unless there are actually 30m+ migrants of all nations in the region, 4/5 is completely implausible.

A third is perhaps more believable.

 

[Freakbro]

but those charts are wildly inaccurate, and cannot be accurate given the nature of the situation.

they firstly are only for those applying for asylum, so not the large groups of illegal migrants moving without application.

secondly their origin is simply their word as they have no papers.

Hold on, you say those figures are inaccurate then later post up a daily mail article (which you didn't even interpret properly) to prove that assertion.. which uses the same data source.....

And I'm not sure why you say it's only the ones applying for asylum and not illegal immigrants, of course it is? The illegal ones are just that, illegal, and generally don't go through official recorded channels anyway.

And what actual percentage of 'refugees' have no papers, rather than what the daily fail headline says?

but it doesn't suggest that at all.

you point that lots have crossed from Syria to turkey, doesn't suggest the vast numbers coming from north Africa across the med from Libya etc are Syrian too..

Huh, no-one is saying the ones coming from Libya or North Africa are Syrian They are from Libya and North Africa (Eritrea, Nigeria etc) That doesn't mean they aren't refugees either.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ars-85-year-just-one-five-war-torn-Syria.html


4 out of 5 arnt according to this one..

It's not saying 4 out of 5 Syrian refugees aren't Syrian at all...its saying 4 out of 5 of the total refugees aren't Syrian...but are refugees from other countries. It also quotes Eurostat as the source for the data, the same place as the bbc article I linked....the one you said was wildly inaccurate....

Also it using a small data set of 1 quarter to spin it's message. So let's take all the data from the horses mouth

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-press-releases/-/3-04032016-AP

Asylum in the EU Member States
Record number of over 1.2 million first time
asylum seekers registered in 2015
Syrians, Afghans and Iraqis: top citizenships

Over 50% of the total refugees come from those 3 countries, Syria 29%, Afghan 14%, Iraq 10%

And that's not saying the other 47% aren't refugees, just that they are from other countries.

German officials estimate it to be 1 third

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...e704fe-616d-11e5-8475-781cc9851652_story.html

no one has papers they are just having to take them on thier word, so theres no evidence either way.

Now this article is saying Syrians aren't Syrians, so let's see where they get their data from

Plate said that rather than a “concrete statistic,” the number was an estimate based on the perceptions of authorities on the ground,

Oh, that's all right then as long as it's an estimate based on perceptions, and not based on any concrete data, it must be a better base for your argument than the 'wildly inaccurate' statistics that have actually been collated

You might as well post up "well, itchy says....."

 

[Diagro]

Finally - the UN agrees with what I've been saying the last 18 months....

Should have given Turkey/Greece etc extra money to process properly instead of the mess created by Angela Merkel.

Its what happens when you put a woman in power....

Yes i went there!

 

[thep02]

I am sick of hearing this standard excuse to most of the worlds problems from you and others on here, it is getting laughable now.

Nah your pathetic and constant excusing of NATO criminality is beyond laughable.

 

[Mr Jack]

Tell us something we don't know, so seeing as the UN has accused the EU of it's own failings why can't the people responsible (Merkel) be held to account?

Why don't you tell us why you disagree with what the UN says in the link you gave?

Because the conclusions of the UN panel quoted are wildly divergent from yours. They're talking about a failure by the EU to relocate refugees around the rest of Europe and a failure to support Greece's efforts to house and deal with them. That's pretty much diametrically opposite to your inference.

 

[Arazi]

Nah your pathetic and constant excusing of NATO criminality is beyond laughable.

I have never excused NATO over anything, i also don't follow or trust NATO if that helps.

Why don't you tell us why you disagree with what the UN says in the link you gave?

Because the conclusions of the UN panel quoted are wildly divergent from yours. They're talking about a failure by the EU to relocate refugees around the rest of Europe and a failure to support Greece's efforts to house and deal with them. That's pretty much diametrically opposite to your inference.

I don't recall disagreeing, everything you have quoted above from the UN article is a direct result of certain EU leaders and their open door\border policy and come to Germany and we will look after you promise.

We wouldn't have a crisis on this scale if we hadn't brought it on ourselves, i also don't agree with any EU country being forced to take in migrants if they dont want to, especially in a situation that was not of their making.

 

[Mr Jack]

I don't recall disagreeing, everything you have quoted above from the UN article is a direct result of certain EU leaders and their open door\border policy and come to Germany and we will look after you promise.

You seem confused about the timeline of events: there was already a migrant crisis when Germany agreed to take a large number of refugees.

We wouldn't have a crisis on this scale if we hadn't brought it on ourselves, i also don't agree with any EU country being forced to take in migrants if they dont want to, especially in a situation that was not of their making.

None of this is supported by the UN link you posted which reaches entirely different conclusions. Why are you posting the link as if it supports your position when it clearly doesn't?

 

[Arazi]

You seem confused about the timeline of events: there was already a migrant crisis when Germany agreed to take a large number of refugees.



None of this is supported by the UN link you posted which reaches entirely different conclusions. Why are you posting the link as if it supports your position when it clearly doesn't?

No confusion at all, i know there was a migration problem, it is now a huge crisis compared to what it was since Merkel invited them all over.

Everything that the UN is accusing the EU of failing at is still a direct result of the EU leaders decisions that set this all up for what we have got today, something that myself and quite a few others pointed out would start to happen once the influx started which has led to the mess that the UN has pointed out the EU has made of it.

 

[scorza]

Germany's entire EUR 13bn budget surplus earmarked exclusively for migrants. Something tells me that giving away free money to so-called refugees isn't exactly going to convince them to stay in Turkey.

 

[Arazi]

Germany's entire EUR 13bn budget surplus earmarked exclusively for migrants. Something tells me that giving away free money to so-called refugees isn't exactly going to convince them to stay in Turkey.

Do you think the part of the deal Turkey want to allow free roaming for it's population around Europe will happen?

They've got some balls

 

[scorza]

Do you think the part of the deal Turkey want to allow free roaming for it's population around Europe will happen?

They've got some balls

I think Turkey will get what it wants, while at the same time won't deliver what it agrees to do with the EU. Such is the level of competence/experience in western politicians at the moment, they let old-school strongmen like Erdogan walk all over them time and time again.

 

[Mr Jack]

No confusion at all, i know there was a migration problem, it is now a huge crisis compared to what it was since Merkel invited them all over.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc, hey?

Just because the problem has continued after Germany stood up and did the right thing does not mean it has got worse because of it. The crisis has got worse because more and more people are being displaced from their homes in Syria and other countries in the area and the poor countries which are doing the heavy lifting of dealing with the refugees - while the rich countries of Europe squabble over taking a few tens of thousands - were already well over their capacity to deal with the problem.

Everything that the UN is accusing the EU of failing at is still a direct result of the EU leaders decisions that set this all up for what we have got today, something that myself and quite a few others pointed out would start to happen once the influx started which has led to the mess that the UN has pointed out the EU has made of it.

The UN is not blaming Germany for letting the migrants in; you are. In fact the UN is doing quite the opposite as it says in the link you posted, it is blaming the crisis on the failure of the EU to do more to redistribute the burden of refugees to other countries.

 

[Mr Jack]

Do you think the part of the deal Turkey want to allow free roaming for it's population around Europe will happen?

They're not asking for free roaming they're asking for visa-free travel. These are not quite the same thing. I can travel to New Zealand without a visa but I cannot freely roam around New Zealand for as long as I want - I would still require a visa to stay and work or remain longer than a certain period.

 

[Arazi]

They're not asking for free roaming they're asking for visa-free travel. These are not quite the same thing. I can travel to New Zealand without a visa but I cannot freely roam around New Zealand for as long as I want - I would still require a visa to stay and work or remain longer than a certain period.

You mean like the 1 million plus that have arrived and are going to leave within 90 days? You know, to respect the EU\Schengen visa laws

I think that you must be a bit dolly dimple if you think once they get visa free travel to the Schengen Zone that the new system won't be greatly abused.

This so called new deal with Turkey is pretty much out the frying pan and into the fire with the path Turkey is taking, Turkey will probably be the next migrant crisis in my opinion.

And as usual, the west will get the blame.

In my opinion.

 

[Mr Jack]

You mean like the 1 million plus that have arrived and are going to leave within 90 days? You know, to respect the EU\Schengen visa laws

What 1 million plus are you referring to?

This so called new deal with Turkey is pretty much out the frying pan and into the fire with the path Turkey is taking, Turkey will probably be the next migrant crisis in my opinion.

How, exactly, will Turkey be a "migrant crisis"?