Thinking of getting an EV

dlockers · 14 Jul 2024 at 23:11

Haggisman said:
stole them).

Excellent idea. Way cheaper on monthlies. Depreciation almost none existant!

Spleen Sauce · 14 Jul 2024 at 23:18

Haggisman said:
They still "cost" depreciation - it's just that you paid that when you bought them

He asked for my monthly costs.

They aren't 'costing' depreciation until I sell them, which at that point I'll have been better off compared to a PCP, lease or a loan. Got out of the PCP/lease rat race after the impossibly cheap rates all dried up. For us it's a case of saving (and getting interest on those savings) and if I need to change the car the cash is there to do it.

Haggisman · 14 Jul 2024 at 23:39

Spleen Sauce said:
He asked for my monthly costs.

They aren't 'costing' depreciation until I sell them, which at that point I'll have been better off compared to a PCP, lease or a loan. Got out of the PCP/lease rat race after the impossibly cheap rates all dried up. For us it's a case of saving (and getting interest on those savings) and if I need to change the car the cash is there to do it.

Then they're "costing" whatever you put aside to save for them. They still cost something, whether that's a big one-off cost to buy outright, or loan payment, PCP, whatever.

silvagti · 14 Jul 2024 at 23:40

Haggisman said:
They aren't buying brand new cars.

They are buying 10 year old cars and sticking money aside for when they go *bang*

+1 this is what most folk I know are doing. Nobody on the median salary has money for new EV cars costing ~£40k

dlockers · 14 Jul 2024 at 23:41

Haggisman said:
Then they're "costing" whatever you put aside to save for them. They still cost something, whether that's a big one-off cost to buy outright, or loan payment, PCP, whatever.

OP has stated a few times they are only bothered by monthlies, so I don't think he is being disingenuous.

Haggisman · 14 Jul 2024 at 23:58

dlockers said:
OP has stated a few times they are only bothered by monthlies, so I don't think he is being disingenuous.

I think it's safe to assume the OP hasn't got £20-30k burning a hole in a savings account for a car, otherwise he wouldn't have made the thread

Spleen Sauce · 15 Jul 2024 at 07:00

Haggisman said:
I think it's safe to assume the OP hasn't got £20-30k burning a hole in a savings account for a car, otherwise he wouldn't have made the thread

Agreed. All that extra money has gone into his pension pot. Which of course I’m not saying is the wrong thing to do, just a different approach to what I’ve taken.

If having a newer, more reliable car is really that important to the OP then maybe it’s time to consider lowering that pension contribution and having a bit more to play with in term of monthlies.

lordrobs · 15 Jul 2024 at 07:36

Spleen Sauce said:
Agreed. All that extra money has gone into his pension pot. Which of course I’m not saying is the wrong thing to do, just a different approach to what I’ve taken.

Exactly, this thread alone shows a lot of life choices that are soaking up cash;

Pension overpayment
Mountain biking
Scuba diving
Camping
Child maintenance
Owning a pet (assuming the dog is his)

OP has also relatively recently bought a house.

The complaining about how it's "crap" that he can't afford a new car is kind of ironic in context when you factor in that he's on an above average salary.

I go too far the other way with being frugal with money but in his shoes I'd back off the non essentials for 6 months, bank the cash and have it as a buffer to reduce the risk of my "risky car getting riskier by the day". Once the "risk factor" is a static amount rather than budgeted monthly you can start to A) take a more logical look at the monthly costs and B) have a bit of cash to use as a deposit if you still decide to go that route.

Uther · 15 Jul 2024 at 08:03

Buy a small cheap to run car and then hire a van on the odd occasion you need to move big stuff.

danlightbulb · 15 Jul 2024 at 08:12

lordrobs said:
Mountain biking
Scuba diving
Camping

I don't spend much on these things. All the equipment is already bought going back a number of years. Go camping a couple times a year, less than I used to since I bought the house. But still need the space for the gear.

lordrobs said:
Pension overpayment

Yes this was done on purpose so that I didn't pay any 40% tax. I thought that was a good thing to do, and by doing it I have self limited my pay increases and monthly budget. It has only been the past 3 years or so that I've crept into that band.

lordrobs said:
Child maintenance

Yes unfortunately my marriage didn't work out, my ex wife was abusive and I no longer see my kids. Clearly wish I could turn the clock back but I can't. So this does take a considerable chunk out of my salary every month. It has taken many years to recover financially from this.

lordrobs said:
OP has also relatively recently bought a house

The reason I'm late in life to this is because of the above mentioned divorce.

lordrobs said:
The complaining about how it's "crap" that he can't afford a new car is kind of ironic in context when you factor in that he's on an above average salary.

I go too far the other way with being frugal with money but in his shoes I'd back off the non essentials for 6 months, bank the cash

There isn't much spare I'm afraid. The spending on the above activities really is minimal, I don't have much to cut back on already. I already do the switcheroo on various bills to keep them down etc. I've been spending a lot on working on the house I bought.

Spleen Sauce said:
If having a newer, more reliable car is really that important to the OP then maybe it’s time to consider lowering that pension contribution and having a bit more to play with in term of monthlies.

Yes I could do this. I'm a bit loathed to though because obviously it's a good thing to be putting more into my pension fund.

I think fundamentally I'm just shocked at the prices, new, lease, used, whatever. I don't see how people can afford them on normal salaries and so I assumed I must have been missing something.

Even a 10 year old car is £10k now, as we've discussed many times, and the used market is terribly overpriced. So that's £200 a month in loan, plus insurance servicing maintenance and all that. Then fuel on top. Even a 10 year old car, bought with a loan, plus all those other costs is going to be £600 a month expenditure.

dlockers · 15 Jul 2024 at 08:15

danlightbulb said:
Even a 10 year old car is £10k now, as we've discussed many times, and the used market is terribly overpriced. So that's £200 a month in loan, plus insurance servicing maintenance and all that. Then fuel on top. Even a 10 year old car, bought with a loan, plus all those other costs is going to be £600 a month expenditure.

Your baseline is all wrong, and how you are interpreting the numbers is all wrong.

In summary, you want to have a BRAND NEW car with nil deposit, for less overall costs than your current vehicle that you own outright. This even includes FUEL.

In no universe is that a normal barometer; so the fact you are getting CLOSE is pretty outstanding (in part thanks to sal sac).

Nobody generally expects to be "better off" whilst also acquiring a £30k car in the process.

danlightbulb · 15 Jul 2024 at 08:19

dlockers said:
Your baseline is all wrong, and how you are interpreting the numbers is all wrong.

In summary, you want to have a BRAND NEW car with nil deposit, for less overall costs than your current vehicle that you own outright. This even includes FUEL.

In no universe is that a normal barometer; so the fact you are getting CLOSE is pretty outstanding (in part thanks to sal sac).

Nobody generally expects to be "better off" whilst also acquiring a £30k car in the process.

Because I thought the fuel saving from going EV, and the maintenance saving, and the sal sac saving - all would offset the cost. Those three things we're talking £400 worth of funding from! Isn't it crazy that even with those things contributing I still can't get even a mid range new car?

Whenever I've looked at switching cars before, getting a loan or even the salary sac scheme but for a petrol or diesel car, the fuel costs never changed so the car cost was always on top of. Obviously that's normal and I expected that. But this time with saving the fuel I thought it would be different.

I really don't like wasting money. The last car I bought with a loan was in 2006 a 3 years old Mondeo diesel hatchback which I then kept for 9 years. After that I only bought £1500-£3k cars.

dlockers · 15 Jul 2024 at 08:28

danlightbulb said:
Because I thought the fuel saving from going EV would offset the cost.

That is very wishful thinking than you can offset the cost of a BRAND NEW CAR with lower fuel bills. Do you not think the entire world would have an EV if it was that simple?

You understand a brand new £30k EV will depreciate to ~£16k over 3 years, say? So before any bells and whistles like insurance, tax, tyres, etc are thrown in, you are already having to cover £444.44 a month in just depreciation (assuming the lease companies finance at 0% which they won't) - no matter how much mental gymnastics/man maths you perform.

Your assumption on the outset ignored the basic mechanics of the maths involved.

Salary sacrifice can be the cheapest or most expensive way into a brand new car. On your salary/pension contributions as a single person, I would avoid like the plague. Get yourself into a nice £13k car with a bank loan and accept the reality of the situation.

Edit: eg. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-de...eries&postcode=sw1a2aa&year-from=2020&fromsra

danlightbulb · 15 Jul 2024 at 08:58

dlockers said:
You understand a brand new £30k EV will depreciate to ~£16k over 3 years, say? So before any bells and whistles like insurance, tax, tyres, etc are thrown in, you are already having to cover £444.44 a month in just depreciation (assuming the lease companies finance at 0% which they won't) - no matter how much mental gymnastics/man maths you perform.

Your assumption on the outset ignored the basic mechanics of the maths involved.

Salary sacrifice can be the cheapest or most expensive way into a brand new car. On your salary/pension contributions as a single person, I would avoid like the plague. Get yourself into a nice £13k car with a bank loan and accept the reality of the situation.

Thanks.

However, if you are right (which you are) then where are all the 3 year old £16k cars?

If I search on AT for estate, auto, newer than 2020, upto £17k, less than 40k miles. There are only 206 cars meeting that criteria.

There are 66 MG5 EVs in this!

The rest are pretty poor, small estates with no performance.

So whilst I agree with your points fully in principle, if you go to the market the cars aren't there.

bigmike20vt · 15 Jul 2024 at 09:00

danlightbulb said:
I don't spend much on these things. All the equipment is already bought going back a number of years. Go camping a couple times a year, less than I used to since I bought the house. But still need the space for the gear.

Yes this was done on purpose so that I didn't pay any 40% tax. I thought that was a good thing to do, and by doing it I have self limited my pay increases and monthly budget. It has only been the past 3 years or so that I've crept into that band.

Yes unfortunately my marriage didn't work out, my ex wife was abusive and I no longer see my kids. Clearly wish I could turn the clock back but I can't. So this does take a considerable chunk out of my salary every month. It has taken many years to recover financially from this.

The reason I'm late in life to this is because of the above mentioned divorce.

There isn't much spare I'm afraid. The spending on the above activities really is minimal, I don't have much to cut back on already. I already do the switcheroo on various bills to keep them down etc. I've been spending a lot on working on the house I bought.

Yes I could do this. I'm a bit loathed to though because obviously it's a good thing to be putting more into my pension fund.

I think fundamentally I'm just shocked at the prices, new, lease, used, whatever. I don't see how people can afford them on normal salaries and so I assumed I must have been missing something.

Even a 10 year old car is £10k now, as we've discussed many times, and the used market is terribly overpriced. So that's £200 a month in loan, plus insurance servicing maintenance and all that. Then fuel on top. Even a 10 year old car, bought with a loan, plus all those other costs is going to be £600 a month expenditure.

clearly you spend your money on what you want, it is your call and everyone is different. Sorry about your family issues, it sucks, i have been through some of that myself - albeit without the kid - and it wasnt pleasant.

that said, there is a halfway house between a brand new car and a high milage old banger which isnt reliable.

i havent looked and i cant as am meant to be working! but i am pretty sure you will be able to get a lets say 5- 7 year old low mileage car which ticks most of your boxes for well under £10k. still not nothing, but a lot cheaper than a brand new car and, whilst there is always a risk, but running costs should be ok as well.

you already mentiond a mondeo, but how about a skoda, or mazda 6 estate?

btw i fit a fridge freezer in a 1.4 pug 306 (the original 1993 one) once.. it was a squeeze, and i think i had to bungie tie the boot down, but it was possible.

I love EVs, they are the future, I am convinced of it, however whilst there are affordable cars now 2nd hand for most people, some segments are still possibly lacking, and affordable large estates i guess is one of them.

the battery in an EV is generally quite large at the moment if you want a big car with long range, so i guess that will have an effect on price and possibly boot space. for now maybe an ICE is best for you and then you can look to go electric in your next car 5-10 years from now.

Tinders · 15 Jul 2024 at 09:00

Any Corolla/auris hybrid estates in that list, they are like a tardis, and that hybrid engine is bullet proof.

dlockers · 15 Jul 2024 at 09:05

danlightbulb said:
Thanks.

However, if you are right (which you are) then where are all the 3 year old £16k cars?

If I search on AT for estate, auto, newer than 2020, upto £17k, less than 40k miles. There are only 206 cars meeting that criteria.

There are 66 MG5 EVs in this!

The rest are pretty poor, small estates with no performance.

So whilst I agree with your points fully in principle, if you go to the market the cars aren't there.

£16k is the depreciation to you and was just an illustrative example. The company reselling the car will want to make some margin on that; they will have costs to collect, prepare, service, etc the car.

There are 124 Peugeot E2008's under £16k with less than 30k miles.

The estate body type isn't particular popular compared to saloons, crossovers or SUVs. However if I search up to 30k, less than £16k, and estate body type I am getting 365 results.

E.g.