Thinking of getting an EV

[danlightbulb]

I do wonder if the salary sacrifice company is inflating the cost of the car, but it's hard to tell. The salary sacrifice scheme is no deposit, and includes insurance, VED, all servicing and maintenance, breakdown cover, tyres. If I go that route I would try and do a gross cost comparison to see what the underlying car cost is.

No and that’s by design and completely intentional.

Or to put it another way, the government doesn’t usually write tax to allow people not to pay it and for the most part it goes out of its way to close down any unintended loop holes as quickly as possible.

Yeah understood, it just sounded like pc-guy had another option.

 

[danlightbulb]

If you lease an older car , that is still under a salary sacrifice agreement ? even though insurance/maint is down to you; usually have some company constraints on car age, too

Can't do that on my scheme.

 

[danlightbulb]

Do all SUV style cars feel like you're sitting in a van? My current car is old, but it feels like a snug fit and my feet/pedals are out in front of me. I sat in the Peugeot 3008 last night and it was like I was perched up on a stool. I don't mind the exterior styling and the chunky designs of SUVs, but I would prefer a more 'fitted' driving position?

 

[danlightbulb]

How important is a heat pump in an EV? Most of the cars Im looking at don't have it as standard, but a couple do. Its an expensive extra so won't be able to add it on.

 

[danlightbulb]

Second hand EVs that are 3+ years old are much better value, here's some £10k-20k, 2019-2021 up to 60k mileage and have decent range:

Used Electric Cars for Sale | Electrifying

Buy your perfect second-hand car with Electrifying. With hassle-free finance options to suit you, we keep things simple. Browse our used electric cars stock.

www.electrifying.com

They seem to be the smaller cars. The Kona and niro are going to be too small for me.

 

[danlightbulb]

I've been watching a lot of stuff on YouTube about the really high depreciation on the EVs and thinking maybe it is better to look again at buying a used one.

I never seem to see the kinds of prices that these YouTubers seem to find though.

 

[danlightbulb]

According to you tube I should be looking at around 50% of the new price for a car that's around 2 years old. There should be a bunch of cars I'm looking at around the £20k mark but I'm not seeing them.

 

[danlightbulb]

I just had a wander round a car supermarket and a Hyundai dealer near me.

At the Hyundai dealer I saw the Ioniq 5 and the new Kona. The new Kona is a really good size, the boot is around the same size as the Ioniq but its a bit smaller in the back seats.

At the car supermarket I saw the MG5, looks pretty decent actually. This was the older model and I think the facelift model is nicer.

I also saw the Mokka (too small), the Skoda Enyac which is a really nice size car, not too big in the body but with a really good boot, the Kia Niro which looks decent, and the Audi e-tron.

Ive seen youtubers talk about the Audi e-tron. A £70k car now going for low £20k's. Its a really big car though, looks very nice inside but the range/efficiency won't be great.


The Hyundai dealer thinks hydrogen fuel will take over EVs within 2-3 years.

Ps I also saw the new Ioniq 5 N, it looks incredible. Way out of my price range of course.

 

[danlightbulb]

No no no

This is all falling apart now. I would need £25k to get a used Ioniq (that's decent, low miles). Then would have to meet insurance etc all myself.

The car on lease is going to cost me an additional £200 per month over what my current car costs me, and that's including the fuel savings and monthly repair allowance, and includes cutting my pension contributions by 3%.

The only car that I can really afford to have on the lease is the MG5, and that's the only car I can afford to buy used as well.

This is just so crap. Try and reduce my cost of motoring and/or risk of running an older car and its just impossible.

 

[danlightbulb]

You were thinking about the MG5 at first, so probably best just to think about that one and not try to stretch to something else if you don't actually need it.
Head over heart with this one would make sense to me.

I know but when you start looking at other cars, and looking at the numbers, it makes you doubt what you need. The MG5 is on the slower side of all the better cars, is that going to be sufficient?

A £20k loan to buy one outright might be the right choice in terms of financial value as the car is mine, but its a hell of a big loan and Im then still liable for all the maintenance, insurance etc.

The gross cost for the MG5 on the salary sacrifice scheme is £587 per month. If I knock off £70 for insurance, say £20 allowance for servicing (generous as it won't need anything for 2 years at least), £10 for breakdown cover, and say £10 allowance for tyres (its only on 17" wheels) then that comes to around £477 for the car itself. Leaseloco says £400 should be the lease cost for that car over 48 months no deposit so my scheme is a bit overpriced. On a net basis (after the tax savings, BIK etc) this car will cost me £455 a month and I wouldn't need to reduce my pension contribution to afford that.

If I have the £20k loan to buy say this one: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-de...ake=MG&model=MG5&sort=distance&year-from=2021

Which is almost brand new (only 1800 miles on it) then that will cost me £390 over 5 years plus then the insurance, servicing allowance etc is coming to around £520 per month. I would own the car maybe worth £6-8k after another 5 years but I have higher cost upfront and still carry the repair risks.

 

[danlightbulb]

Ive just been to an mg garage and seen the MG5.

It is very nice and I can see the value for money. However there are some issues.

First is the boot space is decent but the back seats don't go any flatter than about 30 degrees when pushed down. That's really killing the space for long items.

Second is the wheels and wheel arch gap, it's huge. Doesn't look good compared to the rest of the car which looks nice.


Edit I also saw the Peugeot 308 SW. Nice looking estate car, good space, great cabin, flat load space. Problem is it's slow for an EV at nearly 10 seconds to 60.

 

[danlightbulb]

There are countless used cars that sit between these options that will be more reliable, cost less to run and not cost you £20k to change into.

Are there? The used market is awful. And any car that isn't an EV I don't get the fuel savings on.

Could you suggest something?

 

[danlightbulb]

There is no point in me suggesting anything because if the criteria is saving on running costs and not costing £20k there are literally tens of thousands of cars on auto trader at various price points.

If you could suggest something I'd really appreciate it, I can't see the wood for the trees at the moment.

If for example, for 10k I can still only get a 12 year old car, that doesn't mitigate any repair risk. If a diesel I may save 50 a month in fuel. But the loan will cost 200. So I'm still a lot worse off.

 

[danlightbulb]

Your maths is all over the place though. Buying a second hand 20k car will cost 'more' but you'll own it at the end. There are a bunch of 3 year old Polestars around 20k which can only be 300 odd quid per month over a longish loan? You need to stop paying car insurance monthly as well.

I pay car insurance annually. I just show it monthly to make it comparable with the monthly lease scheme.

Owning the car is kinda irrelevant if I can't afford the monthly repayments though. I need to consider all aspects.

 

[danlightbulb]

If you can't afford a second hand car you can't afford a brand new car on salsac. You're just paying the equivalent monthly but have nothing at the end; the cycle will repeat in 3 years.

So what do you suggest?

A 20k loan is nearly £400 a month over 5 years. I still have to meet insurance, servicing, tax, fuel and maintenance. If it's not an EV, there is another c.£300 per month on top of the loan payment. If it is an EV, I would save about £160 a month in fueling costs.

I'm paying £400 a month now on my current car. The car is zero, but insurance, servicing, tax, fuel and maintenance adds up to £400. And there is a reasonable risk of it dropping a big bill on me or sudden end of life failure. I'll have nothing at the end of 3 years if I keep what I have now (other than a 22 year old BMW on its last legs).

 

[danlightbulb]

Why not buy something reliable and cheap to run for about £10k?

Like what? Everything around £10k is already 10 years old or approaching 100k miles. I have no risk reduction from what I have now if I buy a car like that. So I take out a £200 per month loan to buy the car, I still have £300-400 per month running costs and I still carry the risk of a big bill dropping. I don't understand how that is better?

 

[danlightbulb]

Ok so I need a reasonable size car firstly. The Juke, Leaf, Golf, DS3, E2008, Prius - none of those are big enough.

Secondly I'm not sure you are quite understanding my point.

I currently spend £400 a month running and maintaining my old car. That is dead money, I have nothing to show for it after 3 more years.

I could get a new car on the salary sac scheme at work that will cost me £450 a month (the MG5). Yes I also have nothing to show for that over three years either. But instead of driving round in a 19 year old petrol BMW and carrying all that repair risk and worry, I will have been driving round in a brand new all inclusive MG5.

If I'm buying a second hand car I will need a loan. If I don't buy an EV, that loan is on top of the fuel costs, so I can't offset the cost of the car with the fuel saving. Hence, even though it's a newer car and I carry less risk the outlay per month is still higher. I am also still carrying risk, I could buy a £17k car tomorrow and in 6 months the engine fails. That liability is on me no matter which car I buy.

If I buy an EV with a loan, it's a hefty loan, needing around £20k. So whilst I do then own the car (and still carry any out of warranty repair risk), I will still increase my monthly outgoings substantially even with the fuel savings.

Consider my position from where it is right now - a £400 per month cost of running a car which is 19 years old. How can I a) reduce this or b) keep it the same whilst getting a better car?

 

[danlightbulb]

Sounds like you need to get a cheaper ICE car for now and then in 1-2 years get an EV. Prices will continue to come down, Ionic 5s will be around £15k by then.

I'm not reducing my current £400 per month outlay though am I? Any ICE car from the used market would see my costs increase.

Given that I'm spending £400 a month now in keeping an old car going (including fuel), why don't I spend that same money on a brand new lease EV?

I can still look at used cars again in 3 years time when the lease ends.

 

[danlightbulb]

Size is an issue ?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-de...0000&sort=price-desc&twcs=true&year-from=2018

Come on please be serious. I'm trying my best here to find the right option for me.

 

[danlightbulb]

Is something like a 2019/20 Kona 64kWh really too small? Without knowing exact usage, could external bike racks or roof boxes etc. make up for space lost vs the 325i? They look pretty spacious with the rear seats flat, even if not quite as large as some estates.

There's plenty out there for £15k or less, with very sensible mileage by the look of it, you save fuel costs etc. and it'll likely still be worth a bit in 3 or 4 years so the money going into the loan payment isn't totally dead money.

Edit - https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202404248997086

Not recommending the specific car but there's a good selection of photos, including interior. There's a good few about by the look of it.

I mean the issue there is it's still a 5 year old car firstly.

Secondly yes it really is too small. I had a bike rack on a car many years ago, it's an absolute faff. One big tent, BBQ, bag of food, clothes bags, dog in the back seat. Won't fit in that boot. Scuba gear X 2 people (all the kit, 4x air cylinders, drysuits) won't fit in that boot. A trip to Wickes to pick up 6 2x4s won't fit in that car.