Thinking of upgrading my 595's to......

Speedy Pete

Speedy Pete

Speedy Pete

Associate
Joined
7 Dec 2002
Posts
1,723
Location
South Wales
............Sen 650's ?

£265 does seem steep but im sure they will pay off with the many years i will be using them for.

They will be driven by an Asus xonar essence.

What I suppose im asking you lot is what else should i be considering? In this price/performance cat.
 
Last edited:
I'd go with the HD 650s all day long over the K70Xs.

K701s were my holy grail until I got some. I used them for about 50 hours over a few months, trying to convince myself I liked them, but just couldn't get on with them at all. Horrible things for poorly recorded rock (thin and earsplittingly shrill), no bass at all (don't let people convince you otherwise), and not the best build quality in the world. K701s and 702s are meant to be pretty much identical aside the colour and the removable cable of the 702s.

HD 650s are far better suited to every day use, and the logical upgrade from 595s. K701/2s look good and I've heard nothing better for jaxz music (although HD 650s aren't that far behind). You can pick up used HD 650s for ~£170.

I also have Denon D2000s, and these are also very good. Better than the HD 650s for gaming/movies and electronica with tremendous bass. Not so good for rock/jazz.
 
Last edited:
I don't mind the performance in gaming as most of my attention is going at the screen.

I didn't fancy the AKG's as i don't like jumping camp after my love for the 595's and i feel the same way to the Denon's.
Apparantly the D2000's are faster and have better bass.
Would you say they would be better for drum n bass music?
 
The HD650 won't be as good as the 595 for gaming performance in terms of locating enemies by sound IMO. They are superior for music though, providing you have a good head amp. I'd avoid the AKGs unless you like anemic bass.

The Denons are definitely better for electronic music than the Sennheisers, again, IMO. It really depends on what genres you mainly listen to as the HD650 and D2000 are both great headphones but have sound signatures suited to different music.
 
HD650 wins for vocals. The Denons have more bass weight and impact, but the mids are definitely recessed.

It's a matter of taste, but the HD600/650 were not exciting enough for me.
 
The HD650 are brilliant for vocals. On well mastered recordings, you can easily discern the unique texture and timbre of a good singer and more importantly, it sounds very natural and uncoloured. In fact, after getting my HD650, I quickly realised how much I was missing with lesser headphones and how artificial and hollow vocals sounded with them.

The bass on the HD650 are well balanced in my opinion, not ruler flat, but slightly on the warm side, without sounding artificial. It's not incredibly tight, but not bloated either and has decent extension and impact, good enough for bass heavy music. That said, I'm using them directly from my Essence ST and from what I've read, the bass on the 650s can improve quite a bit (more control, tightness and impact) with a better amp, which is something you may want to consider in the future.

For me, I have no complaints using them directly from the Essence ST. With the +12db gain setting, there is plenty of volume, bass is punchy enough and there doesn't seem to be anything that is obviously missing from the music. I'm planning to get a good desktop amp at some point, but I'm in no rush.
 
Speedy Pete said:
Anything you have in mind?

I won't be purchasing an amp unless i really am dissapointed with the performance from the essence, but will the price bump be worth it?
Click to expand...

Not sure, but something like the Matrix M-Stage or Schitt Asgard seem like good options, without costing silly amounts. There are better amps of course, but as you say, is it really worth it? For now though, I'm happy with the Essence ST.

Regarding the Audeze LCD-2, oh lord, if only I had the monies!
 
HD650=£265 + Matrix M-Stage=£170

Total = £435

For that kind of money there has to be an easier driven headphone that would stomp the HD650?
 
Problem is that there's no simple and reliable way of comparing headphones, a lot of it is subjective and there are different aspects you must consider, rather than just a single measurement of performance. The HD650 is a good example of this, because it has quite a unique sound signature that even some far more expensive headphones can't replicate properly. I've seen people with the HD800 prefer the HD650, because it sounds more musical to them. At the same time, there's people with far less expensive headphones, claiming that they sound better than the HD650. I've seen this happen quite a few times especially on the head-fi forums, but give it a few months and people seem to lose interest in these headphones and go back to recommending the HD650 again.

In my opinion, the best option would be to audition the headphone first and to trust your own ears and preferences in sound reproduction (which is different for everyone, and wildly so in some cases). Also, consider the fact that the HD650 has been around for a long time, is a highly successful product for Sennheiser and well regarded amongst the audiophile community.
 
Speedy Pete said:
Anything you have in mind?

I won't be purchasing an amp unless i really am dissapointed with the performance from the essence, but will the price bump be worth it?
Click to expand...

The amp on the Essence is actually quite glorious IMO. You'd be looking to spend over £200 on a desktop amp to surpass it's quality/performance.
 
The amp on the essence is not glorious if you have heard much better
It aims at full detail but at the sacrifice of musicality and a lot more

Also the essence stock op amps are rubbish and you should look to upgrade them to LME4720 to get a much better sound - the 650's are more than deserved of it!
The 650's will require much more than a £100 all in sound card can output to get the best from them!!

A Project Headbox II improves the sound - but really for those cans you will want a Greaham Slee Novo Headphone amp - that would be just about enough, probably the better model the Solo is more what is required.

The Essence is an excellent sound card once the op amps are upgraded and is a worthy source but I dont think the amp is any where near enough.

I think look to upgrade your op amps first - this is a cheap upgrade!

Second look to equalize your headphones - this is a free upgrade and there is instructions on how to do it on HeadFi I think - google equalizing headphones. This makes more difference than buying any upgrade!!

Then maybe look to upgrade your cans - but look to upgrade the amp as well!
The great thing about the essence is the phono outs - you can use good quality phono interconnects to get Great Sound!!!!!

EDITED - all above is based on ym very recent experience with the STX Essence sound card - apologies for nay confusion related to my posts :)
 
Last edited:
IN ADDITION ALL HEADPHONES NEED EQUALIZING DUE TO A RESONANCE IN THE EAR AT CERTAIN FREQUENCIES- THIS WAS DISCOVERED BY LINKWITZ RILEY - HE IS THE SOUND MASTER

I DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS UNTIL 2 WEEKS AGO - I WISH I DID BEFORE :)

ONCE LOOKED INTO AND DONE PROPERLY OR EVEN CLOSE TO YOU WILL NEVER GO BACK THE SOUND IS AMAZINGLY DIFFERENT!!

THIS NEEDS TO BE DONE BEFORE PUTTING ANY HEADPHONES UP AGAINST EACH OTHER AS COMPARISON - GOOD CANS ARE DESIGNED WITH A FLAT FREQ RESPONSE CURVE BUT ITS THE INNER EAR CHANNEL THAT CAUSES THE RESONANCE BIG PEAKS AS MUCH AS 9db OR MORE AT CERTAIN FREQS - THE BIGGEST GENERALLY BEING 7.5KHTZ APPROX

I HAVE 3 PEAKS THAT NEED ERQUALIZING FROM MY HD 558'S - ITS LIKE THE DIFFERENCE FROM BETWEEN AN EQUALIZED / CALIBRATRED HOME CINEMA SYSTEM AND ONE THAT IS NOT
 
Last edited:
The HD650s don't need equalising. Anything that doesn't sound 'right' will quickly be accounted for by your brain, which is pretty much an equaliser in it's own right. I've tried using an equaliser in the past and no matter how good they are, I always end up disabling it because while it may sound right with one song, there's always going to be another song where it doesn't (too much bass, too much treble, distortion, clipping, sibliance, etc). Good headphones such as the HD650 are usually tuned to sound good with everything, providing the rest of your system is relatively neutral sounding.

Equalising only makes sense when there are huge dips and peaks in the frequency response curve of your headphones, which is not the case with the HD650. Of course, there's nothing wrong with using an equaliser if you like extra bass, more treble and what not, but the whole idea of trying to flatten the frequency response of your headphones is a hugely flawed concept - what's flat sounding to you is not necessarily flat to everyone else.
 
Just try it on your STX before you worry about buying an amp. You might be happy with the sound and sometimes blissful ignorance saves you money in the audiophile game.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom