This Business and Moment...

ash_scotland88 said:
Today I have noticed the closing date has been extended, is there any worth of emailing and asking/saying that I have noticed the application has been extended and I would very much like to be reconsidered?
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Tricky one. If they felt you weren't right at that time, I'm not sure it would have changed. That to me sounds like they're just trying to find that unicorn and no one they spoke to quite hit the mark. At the same time is there anything to be lost asking?

My new boss is incredibly frustrating. She's not very good at the whole leading things and continues to run around trying to put out fires in a reactive way, but it's just causing nothing but confusion. I meet with her weekly and go into detail about all I'm working on. My current biggest piece of work is essentially setting up a product operations capability. I did a presentation on this, what it involves, what I'm doing. I've gone into details about this and updates in our 1:1s. So imagine my joy this morning when I get an email saying she was surprised to hear I was doing this across more than just product data, as "that's my role". Problem is, she doesn't understand what product ops is, what it involves and clearly doesn't listen.
Meh. I'll continue to do what I do and ignore her for now. I'm completely aligned with the head of products, as well as the CTO as I met with him yesterday and had a discussion on this, yet she seems to be on another planet.

/rant
 
I think I know what the answer will be to this question but it would be good to hear some other thoughts on this please…

Are there any circumstances in which you believe it would be worthwhile to tell your boss that you have turned down another opportunity elsewhere?

In this case it was an opportunity in another company that had been applied for. It was turned down before the interview stage but based on the discussion with the hiring manager it was very likely it would have been offered.

Currently been employed by existing company for 7 months. The manager understands and has stated that progression needs to take place but given the above it feels like it needs to be quicker.
 
I would find it odd if I had a team member telling me they've 'turned down' another opportunity pre-interview stage after 7 months in the job. I mean what is the rationale for telling them this, "OK listen pal, I'm hot property and if I don't have an offer of promotion sat in my Inbox come Monday I'm walking"?. I mean it's a bit of a non-event to start with, obviously there must be a reason you turned it down so in some ways that undermines any supposedly leverage there might be anyway.

I would approach this from a different angle, don't be thinking "should I tell my boss I've turned down an opportunity elsewhere?" but rather "What do I want to achieve in my career? What would need to happen to progress at my current employer? What conversations do I need to invoke around my development plan?" etc. But 7 months in, I'd say this is the sort of conversation I'd be saving for annual / half-yearly performance review.
 
HangTime said:
I would approach this from a different angle, don't be thinking "should I tell my boss I've turned down an opportunity elsewhere?" but rather "What do I want to achieve in my career? What would need to happen to progress at my current employer? What conversations do I need to invoke around my development plan?" etc. But 7 months in, I'd say this is the sort of conversation I'd be saving for annual / half-yearly performance review.
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Yea, this. Would be completely odd to be approached and told you turned down another opportunity. What response would you expect? A Sly Stallone style two thumbs up?
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HangTime said:
I would find it odd if I had a team member telling me they've 'turned down' another opportunity pre-interview stage after 7 months in the job. I mean what is the rationale for telling them this, "OK listen pal, I'm hot property and if I don't have an offer of promotion sat in my Inbox come Monday I'm walking"?. I mean it's a bit of a non-event to start with, obviously there must be a reason you turned it down so in some ways that undermines any supposedly leverage there might be anyway.

I would approach this from a different angle, don't be thinking "should I tell my boss I've turned down an opportunity elsewhere?" but rather "What do I want to achieve in my career? What would need to happen to progress at my current employer? What conversations do I need to invoke around my development plan?" etc. But 7 months in, I'd say this is the sort of conversation I'd be saving for annual / half-yearly performance review.
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Thanks totally agree and I suspect it could well backfire.

The manager knows that I do not want to hang about too long without progression and was actually pushing it more than I was initially. I think it's more a matter of clearly stating that I am wanting to expedite this, which in turn will trigger the career/development planning conversations.
 
randomshenans said:
Yea, this. Would be completely odd to be approached and told you turned down another opportunity. What response would you expect? A Sly Stallone style two thumbs up?
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It's more a matter of loyalty as this current position is in effect a demotion. If one of my team said similar to me then I would respect it and either continue to or begin to help them understand what they need to develop in order to obtain a promotion.
 
wildest_jjk said:
It's more a matter of loyalty as this current position is in effect a demotion. If one of my team said similar to me then I would respect it and either continue to or begin to help them understand what they need to develop in order to obtain a promotion.
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Definitely don't talk about turning down an opportunity. Think about why you turned it down and why you approached it in the first place. It needs to be focussed on yours goals and what you feel like you're currently missing - then you can start a conversation about how to get there (if it's even possible in your current company/role).
 
randomshenans said:
I'd definitely phrase it in a different way around your progression rather than you are turning down other opportunities
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Agreed, will give it a go thanks.

Basher said:
Definitely don't talk about turning down an opportunity. Think about why you turned it down and why you approached it in the first place. It needs to be focussed on yours goals and what you feel like you're currently missing - then you can start a conversation about how to get there (if it's even possible in your current company/role).
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Thanks. I think I know the main reasons, will just communicate it the right way. Even if I am only 7 months in...
 
randomshenans said:
Tricky one. If they felt you weren't right at that time, I'm not sure it would have changed. That to me sounds like they're just trying to find that unicorn and no one they spoke to quite hit the mark. At the same time is there anything to be lost asking?
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I might leave it till closer to the new closing date, it may show I am enthusiasm to work for the company and it wasn't just a "i'll try my luck and if I get it then I'll work it till something better comes along" application.
 
randomshenans said:
My new boss is incredibly frustrating. She's not very good at the whole leading things and continues to run around trying to put out fires in a reactive way, but it's just causing nothing but confusion. I meet with her weekly and go into detail about all I'm working on. My current biggest piece of work is essentially setting up a product operations capability. I did a presentation on this, what it involves, what I'm doing. I've gone into details about this and updates in our 1:1s. So imagine my joy this morning when I get an email saying she was surprised to hear I was doing this across more than just product data, as "that's my role". Problem is, she doesn't understand what product ops is, what it involves and clearly doesn't listen.
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Had a meeting with her and another team, who started talking about deciding how roadmaps will be captured longterm... I have multiple emails where I was asked to deal with this and have been putting together, with the business, a comparison. Yet in this meeting my boss seemed unaware of this. She's the one who asked me to do it and I have all the emails saying this!
What made it great though was when I gave an update into my work and what I'm up to. She seemed surprised as always, and asked the others if they knew what I was working on and the long term vision. It sounded like she wanted to catch me out and yet every single person in that meeting said yes and that we met regularly to discuss these things.

Now she's scheduled an hour to meet today with me. FML. I can't be dealing with her today. Should I ask for a promotion? That'll put her on the backfoot :D
 
randomshenans said:
Had a meeting with her and another team, who started talking about deciding how roadmaps will be captured longterm... I have multiple emails where I was asked to deal with this and have been putting together, with the business, a comparison. Yet in this meeting my boss seemed unaware of this. She's the one who asked me to do it and I have all the emails saying this!
What made it great though was when I gave an update into my work and what I'm up to. She seemed surprised as always, and asked the others if they knew what I was working on and the long term vision. It sounded like she wanted to catch me out and yet every single person in that meeting said yes and that we met regularly to discuss these things.

Now she's scheduled an hour to meet today with me. FML. I can't be dealing with her today. Should I ask for a promotion? That'll put her on the backfoot :D
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She sees you as a thread, move in for the kill :cool:
 
It's just an incompetent manager.

Even if they had a bad memory they should have project planner with what everyone is doing now and in the future mapped out. They should be able to refer to this. That they don't tells you that they don't know what that are doing.

It's not unusual. Our place is full of similar people.
 
When I meet these kinda people I create meetings and appointments so I'm never available. I also put all issues into writing including meeting schedules. So they can't come back afterwards and claim this time wasting didn't happen and didn't have an impact on schedules.
 
Maccy said:
She sees you as a thread, move in for the kill :cool:
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Haha She's one of 6 on the leadership team under the CTO. Issues with that bunch (minus one guy, exec dir of Eng, who happens to be a good mate) is that they are a bit clueless on our new world product model but their egos are such that they would never say "oh I don't know but lets work it out" they instead get together, make decisions that impact the business without talking to, or considering input from people who have expertise. It keeps happening and the surveys that keep going around keep showing the disconnect between the leadership and the business and a lack of understanding but they don't listen.

Ayahuasca said:
Ah good old bosses who don't like people below them being competent.
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As above, it's all ego. I'm sure they feel because they have this role they should know everything, but that's not what being a leader is. It's about having a strategy, aligning people and getting the experts you employ to help you make the decisions on key things, then execute. Instead they feel the need to pretend to know everything when they don't.
Hopefully it'll all become clear for most, but a lot of these people have been here 20yrs so whatever. They pay well and the pension is good :P I'll just keep working my evenings in my attempt to escape enterprise and slowly build my own, hopefully with fewer people complaining :D
 
It's helpful and useful if a manager does know the jobs of the people reporting into them. If they are good management they don't need to.

Bad manager will struggle much worse of they don't know the jobs that well.
 
Doesn't feel like it warrants it's own thread, but what are peoples opinions on going through an interview process if you're not sure if it's right ot not? Pull out to avoid wasting time or see how it goes in case something changes your mind?

As i've mentioned i'm due to start a project implementing some software from start to finish (i seem to be winning in my desire to be more involved by getting ahead of senior people in getting some plans together, so when my boss mentions something i've said "oh i've got something covering that, lets run through it together")

However from before this change of current role i'd spoken to a few recruiters. One came back to me last week with a job which sounded ok. The job spec makes it sound more "financial" that "finance systems", however he said they'd be changing the base purpose of the role given i have more systems knowledge that they'd expected to get in.

I had the first interview yesterday and, again it was ok. However it seems clear that it's very much a finance analyst role which also looks into the finance systems, rather than the other way around. They are also further along in the process with the Adaptive software i want to get into and so i'd be giving up the exposure to a full implementation process from the start. The plus side is it's a larger firm and so there's the exposure to trial improvements at a local level and then to roll them out company wide which would be pretty good. It also seems like more of a "standard" company which aids reporting whereas my current company has so many awkward variations it makes things overly complicated.

I'm due to have a second interview tomorrow with someone who's more technical on the systems side but i'm having some hesitations as it's sounding more like a repeat of my current role at a different company as opposed to a move towards a more technical systems roll as i'd have liked. Salary would also be pretty similar from the sound of it.
 
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Personally I'd go through with the second interview but use it as an opportunity to explore the areas you are less sure about (assuming the panel can field those questions). It could be that the first interview was steering clear of technical systems discussions on the basis that it gets covered in the second interview. In terms of wasting people's time, if you approach it this way that shouldn't be the case, you're not totally comfortable about certain elements so you are using the interview process to explore that and either put your mind at rest, or provide reasons for withdrawing your application. I've been in similar positions before and have figured it's worth doing for the interview experience, plus you can treat it as a bit of a free hit in terms of salary expectations - you ask for a decent raise and either you get it, or you withdraw your application.

That said, I've had a few interviews lately where we've jointly arrived at the conclusion it's not the right fit. During my recent job hunt I found myself being a lot more 'open' with interviewers than I have been in the past, explaining where I position myself and what I'm looking for fairly candidly rather than just telling them what I think they want to hear (which I tended to do in the past when I was establishing my career).
 
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