This Business and Moment...

Even before lockdown we had remote meetings with other sites and other companies on phone conference etc. We'd already removed our normal phones for headsets.
 
OspreyO said:
We'd already removed our normal phones for headsets.
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Same as us.

I like being at home as I've said before. I have to pick up my daughter from school at 15:45 and will do so. I can equally do that and transfer any meeting I'm in on teams, to my mobile and continue it there. I can jump on the bike in the house at lunchtime, get far more exercise at home than I did going to the office. I just find the structure better for me. We have offices all over anyway, so most meetings even if I was in the offiice, were on headsets as said above. I had more coffee breaks at the office :P and yes, the benefit of that chat was often work stuff that helped things, and haven't found a way to get teams to fill that gap. Yet the rest far outweighs it from my side of things.
 
jaybee said:
With wfh vs office I find these the only things I can say are benefits to commuting into London:

1: The exercise
2: Change of scene. Away from home is out of your control and you see and experience different things and people. This is naturally healthy. Being on the move commuting can feel good sometimes. My office is high so the view is nice.
3: Seeing people face to face and talking/collaborating without teams delay/echo/muting etc.
4: Office banter and wider casual conversations and unprompted discussion / brainstorming

<snip>

This is why wfh is a revelation and has been coming anyway before COVID. We are MORE PRODUCTIVE from home in 99% of cases. Most tend to work longer in fact and still feel fresher. There will always be those that take the biscuit, but the pretenders are easy to weed out with some basic management.
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For us we seem to be more productive when we're in the office with people (we've measured this against our balanced score card, we weren't bad, still productive, but there was clearly more offered when we were together). It does depend on the industry - in mine, engineering (civil / infrastructure) is very much more people focussed and 1-2-1s, as well as small agile face to face meetings offer much more for problem solving and creating value.

The points 1-4 for me are so important for me as well, though the exercise bit isn't too bad as I've built myself a powerlifting gym in my garage (did it 6 years ago as I hate commercial gyms and there are no powerlifting gyms where I live), furthermore living in the countryside means lots of walks and fresh air.

Change of scene and seeing people is so good - plus it's a great way of meeting friends for lunch/coffee when you're in town as many of them work in town too (I mean London for town, but I sometimes travel up and down the country so meet with friends there along the way too).

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy being at home for the school run and being able to get my head down for admin stuff, but for anything that adds value (I manage a large portfolio of the infrastructure industry) even though comparing it to the multi £bn of the industry I work in, you can still clearly see the benefits of our teams getting together for working together.

You can't unilaterally make statements that we are more productive at home, nor can one say, we're more productive in the office - it's a blend, and very sector specific.

As mentioned before I've moved from a role that was WFH contractually to one that isn't - as I want to travel / commute more often to spend time with my teams that I manage or collaborate with.

However there will definitely be a shift from solely working in an office, but for many 100% working from home is just not suitable (also you have to take into consideration space, and ergonomics and living conditions, family etc...).
 
Yeah freefaller I hate gyms too. I started to build a lifting area at my old house but then had to move and no longer have the space to attempt that again.
Anyway.... only thing about working from home is the heating bill for using an electric heater to heat my shed! :) But....it's still cheaper than paying 5k a year to commute in on our **** trains so there's always that.

Here's the question.... if you could teleport to the office, would that make a difference? So take the commute completely out of it. If you can wake up and go either to your home working space or the office in the same time, which one would provide a better working environment?

I think for a lot of people they would chose home. I'll give you one reason... setup. At home I don't have to hot desk. It's my desk setup the way I need in terms of chair (ok my chair is **** but still lol) and everything is how I want it. I have a ridiculous monitor which helps me be more productive and a keyboard and mouse that are actually decent. I can put the TV on/music as I wish. I have infinite capacity to do whatever the hell I want as a break and it's quiet with no distractions.

The office is cold (aircon OTT) and noisy. The monitors - despite best efforts to update them - are 2 x 1080p affairs which are a bit meh. The desks are packed in with no leg room for lanky ***** like me. I mean my office is nice and modern but my actual desk can change and even if I get a good one, that's where I'm sat for 90% of my day. The one at home is just better in everyway in terms of setup.
 
Ironically my desk at work is better, 3 monitors and a big desk. Lots of space in a modern office. Perfect tbh. At home I have eventually got a decent chair and desk. Its smaller than the one in the office. Because I hot swap from work laptop to my own laptop and the smaller desk, I've only one monitor and the laptop screen. I tried two monitors and it was too much hassle. Biggest problems is I don't have seperate room. We have 4 desk/Computer areas at home, often all in use. But often its hard to isolate and concentrate. Which is also a problem if you want to work on other projects outside of work.
 
jaybee said:
Yeah freefaller I hate gyms too. I started to build a lifting area at my old house but then had to move and no longer have the space to attempt that again.
Anyway.... only thing about working from home is the heating bill for using an electric heater to heat my shed! :) But....it's still cheaper than paying 5k a year to commute in on our **** trains so there's always that.

Here's the question.... if you could teleport to the office, would that make a difference? So take the commute completely out of it. If you can wake up and go either to your home working space or the office in the same time, which one would provide a better working environment?

I think for a lot of people they would chose home. I'll give you one reason... setup. At home I don't have to hot desk. It's my desk setup the way I need in terms of chair (ok my chair is **** but still lol) and everything is how I want it. I have a ridiculous monitor which helps me be more productive and a keyboard and mouse that are actually decent. I can put the TV on/music as I wish. I have infinite capacity to do whatever the hell I want as a break and it's quiet with no distractions.

The office is cold (aircon OTT) and noisy. The monitors - despite best efforts to update them - are 2 x 1080p affairs which are a bit meh. The desks are packed in with no leg room for lanky ***** like me. I mean my office is nice and modern but my actual desk can change and even if I get a good one, that's where I'm sat for 90% of my day. The one at home is just better in everyway in terms of setup.
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Teleportation would be amazing - but I do like that "down time" commuting offers - but yes that's a great challenge, I wouldn't miss the cancellations or the "not getting a seat" as I'm an hour out of London. I don't mind the walking around for my commute though... However, you've left me pondering!

I do like going to gyms, I've made a lot of friends there, but those were proper powerlifting / non "fashion" gyms, chalk is allowed, as is nudity, swoleness and blood sweat and tears! :D However, my little dungeon does get cold and the motivation needed to go into it is significant, I should buy a little storage heater with a timer to make it more palatable. Definitely prefer it to paying commercial gym prices though - plus it means my family can use it too (not that they do much).

I guess I'm lucky as I had my own office at work, and I could get the kit I wanted - but in general terms I guess you're right that you get generic kit, generic desks and if you hot desk it's also something to consider. My home office (I'm lucky that I have my own office as does my wife) is ok, I could do with spending a bit of money on my desk, as it's not ideally designed at the moment - but you're right, you can get the set up you want - but you have to spend over what most companies budget for home offices...

Don't get me wrong, home working is great, I do love it, but for me (at least for now) it isn't something I'd want to do all the time as I get a significant amount of pleasure going into the officer and interacting with people.
 
jaybee said:
Here's the question.... if you could teleport to the office, would that make a difference? So take the commute completely out of it. If you can wake up and go either to your home working space or the office in the same time, which one would provide a better working environment?

I think for a lot of people they would chose home. I'll give you one reason... setup
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Assuming you can teleport backwards and forward multiple times (e.g. at lunchtime, to receive a delivery/tradesperson, to go to the toilet etc) then I'd potentially choose office working despite invariably having a worse setup than at home. By far the biggest issue with office working for me is the logistics of having to be away from home. That said, WFH has some advantages like you don't have to worry quite so much about what clothes you are wearing, personal hygiene/grooming etc.
 
HangTime said:
Assuming you can teleport backwards and forward multiple times (e.g. at lunchtime, to receive a delivery/tradesperson, to go to the toilet etc) then I'd potentially choose office working despite invariably having a worse setup than at home. By far the biggest issue with office working for me is the logistics of having to be away from home. That said, WFH has some advantages like you don't have to worry quite so much about what clothes you are wearing, personal hygiene/grooming etc.
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I would agree.

If I have to pick up one of the kids sick from school. Now its a 15 min round job. Previously that would be me out of the office for half a day. Wait for a plumber? Collect the car from the mechanic. All massive chunks of time.
 
OspreyO said:
If I have to pick up one of the kids sick from school. Now its a 15 min round job. Previously that would be me out of the office for half a day. Wait for a plumber? Collect the car from the mechanic. All massive chunks of time.
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100% this for me.

I had a job interview yesterday. No idea how it went, it was a nice chat though. We just casually chatted about stuff together so will see what they and if it goes to the next round. Not sure I want it, I'll see how the other chats go if they do!
 
Some interesting developments for me.

Was due to start the new job on Monday the 17th, but I've had to put that back. Mum had a fall over the holiday period and managed to break her hip. She has now had a hip replacement and is out of hospital but I need to live here for several weeks and essentially act as her carer until she gets back on her feet. They also discovered something scary looking in her lungs while she was in there and we're awaiting the results of the biopsy to see just how serious that is. One thing I have realised now that I'm living here as a carer, she really is a bit screwed. She has been living on her own for so long and maintains her illusion of independence but I don't think I can in good conscious let her live on her own for much longer, things are starting to get away from her, she is still all there mentally but physically I just don't think she is going to be able to do it anymore, even when she has recovered from the hip. Having serious discussions with my other half and my mum about us moving to Essex to live with her full time, not an ideal situation but there don't seem to be many other options.

At the same time one of the directors from the old job messaged me on Tuesday and asked me if I would consider returning to work directly for him, outside of the usual finance department. The business is ramping up for a sale to private equity, and he is leading the deal team and he has a vision for his deal 'dream team' - I've seen the list and its basically the 5 or 6 people in the whole finance function that are competent, and he would like me to join it. I said I would give it some thought depending on the package and what the compensation would be for getting the deal over the line. Part of me thinks it would be crazy to go back to a job that I've spent the last 18 months moaning about, but with the likely change in personal circumstances coming up it might make more sense. I also know that this business will let me work around what I need to do with my mum, and a private equity transaction would look great on the CV.

I think its a wait and see what the package offered is, and if the offer gets over that hurdle then I'll give it further consideration. I could be throwing myself right back into the fire, and I would hate to burn the bridges with the new company as the new role seemed like an exciting challenge, but this change to personal circumstances has really put some doubt in my mind.

What do you think all?
 
Looking after your Mum is kind of a different conversation for a different thread. But I would be thinking of a house keeper, cleaner and/or carer part time. Which allows you to work but be involved with you mum.

No idea about finance. I think you'd need knowledge of that sector to advise.
 
Looking into all the options with my mum, don't want to derail the thread by going into it here. Still some conversations to have with my other half, but I think the solution that makes the most sense is for us to move out here, but nothing has been decided yet.

Offer from my old firm came back and its very strong, 10% salary bump over the new job, about 10-15% a year better bonus, permanent work from home, get my share allocation back and also a 'deal bonus' when we get the private equity deal over the line. Money wise it blows the other offer out of the water, and the perm work from home lends itself better to the uncertainty regarding my circumstances.

My only concerns is going back to the company I've been complaining about since the dawn of time. I'll be working directly for the CUO who is both a friend and somebody that I respect deeply, but I do not want to get pulled back into BAU finance tasks - but even if I did, the short term financial reward is so significant that I might have to pull up my big boy pants and suck it up for 12 months.

I'm leaning towards going back to the old company, going to chat it through with the CUO next week before I make a final decision.

Not looking forward to the chat with the new company / recruiter, going to burn some bridges there.
 
I think the share allocation must be a big factor. From memory it was close to 6 figures and with the house purchase i'd be tempted to go with it. As you say as long as you're kept away from all the bau stuff from the other role.


Not quite the same, but i've just had an email about a job pop up that's really peaking my interest. It's a consultancy role for Adaptive which is where i wanted to push my career towards anyway. Obviously no guarantees i'd be offered it etc, but since i've only been in my current role for 7 months and really enjoying it, i can't quite decide whether it's worth that initial chat with the recruiter or to just push it from my mind.
 
Didn't pan out in the end, they walked back a little from the offer they made on Friday and demoted the role from 'head of' to 'manager' which was just too much of a hit on bonus / CV optics to make the offer viable long term. Short term its a hell of a payday I'm passing up, but long term the new job is the sensible play.
 
Rids said:
Didn't pan out in the end, they walked back a little from the offer they made on Friday and demoted the role from 'head of' to 'manager' which was just too much of a hit on bonus / CV optics to make the offer viable long term. Short term its a hell of a payday I'm passing up, but long term the new job is the sensible play.
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The fact that they went back like that, shows you that the experience of the past and how the empty promises didn't materialise, that they're just not trustworthy and the new role is the best play.
 
randomshenans said:
The fact that they went back like that, shows you that the experience of the past and how the empty promises didn't materialise, that they're just not trustworthy and the new role is the best play.
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Aye, completely agree, they've been holding out 'Head of' as a carrot for me for years and honestly I think I did everything I could to get it.

I had some doubts about the new job, but now I'm certain its the right move, actually can't wait to start and get my teeth into it now.
 
Got the third interview with a company tonight. They're offering me 22% on what I currently earn, but I have no enthusiasm for the role and I don't particularly want to leave this job I'm in now as I'm enjoying it. I think they might offer me the position and if they do, I need to work out how to maximise my salary at the current company. I know the normal approach would be to raise it with them and say that you have received an offer, but I suspect the reaction here would be more like telling your parents you failed all your classes and then being asked to leave - massive disappointment followed by gardening leave.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
Got the third interview with a company tonight. They're offering me 22% on what I currently earn, but I have no enthusiasm for the role and I don't particularly want to leave this job I'm in now as I'm enjoying it. I think they might offer me the position and if they do, I need to work out how to maximise my salary at the current company. I know the normal approach would be to raise it with them and say that you have received an offer, but I suspect the reaction here would be more like telling your parents you failed all your classes and then being asked to leave - massive disappointment followed by gardening leave.
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Got to do what's best for you. Forget everybody else.
 
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