This Business and Moment...

In an interesting spot, 7 weeks after going into a perm role my employer are looking to shuffle things around. Currently I run the projects side of a key function, with the BAU aspects of that function run through a separate team. I'm regularly required to utilise that teams resource to input into project outputs, and I generally keep them pointed in the right direction on BAU tasks. I've been offered the chance to take over the BAU function officially as well as keep my project work. I've done the BAU aspects of this role before and I'll admit that I wasn't enthralled by it, but I'd no longer be hands on as there is a team to support.

This is a significant shift in workload and I'm going to be spread thin. The BAU function needs some work, there are no immediate fires that need putting out but the quality / speed of work is not up to my standards and if its going to be my reputation on the line I've got a great deal I need to work on. On top of that I've got 3 pretty major projects on the go so having the capacity to do everythng is going to be challenging.

In an ideal world, I don't think its a role I'd want, but I'm aware that if I don't take they'll have to go external. If they go external they'll either bring in somebody that is really strong who will be encroaching on what I do, or it'll be somebody who isn't up to standard and it'll be more frustration. I've indicated that to take it we will need a serious chat about pay and rations, I'm already at the top end of the salary banding for my grade and we'd be looking at ploughing through that ceiling for it to be worth my while. I've also suggested that to ease my concerns about capacity I'll want to bring another body into the team to be my right hand, again they've suggested this won't be a problem.

Pros
- Chance to build the entire function in my vision and the budget to do so
- Signifcant pay bump
- Fix all the minor annoyances that exist in the current structure
- Chance to add real value across the entire group, not just on projects
- Puts me firmly on the director track
- Job security significantly increased

Cons
- BAU aspects of the role are pretty dull
- Work / Life balance will worsen in the short-mid term
- Inheriting a team that is going to need a lot of coaching to become what it needs to be
- Reputational risk in the short term regarding the quality of outputs produced

What would you do?
I'd previously inferred that you used to work in Finance within the Insurance sector, assuming that's still the case I'd say there's a couple of things to be wary of (having been in a similar position on the IT side of things):
  • You will probably have tension between project resources and BAU resources to deal with, e.g. BAU folk not being happy with the changes being introduced by the project team, conversely project team feeling they are blocked by BAU, BAU not keeping to schedule due to the inherently volatile distractions etc. Because you straddle both it will be down to you to mediate (this isn't all bad because at least you should be empowered to drive towards a mutually acceptable outcome and have influence over both sides, but it can be stressful)
  • As you have highlighted, capacity is a major challenge. The main reason I quit my role in this domain was the absolutely relentless nature of it all; do 6hrs of meeting and then hit the 50+ mail inbox, working on multiple programmes with 9-digit budgets in parallel with being accountable for critical BAU systems, managing a team of ~35, basically paralysed by complexity and competing priorities leaving no time for innovation.
  • At less than 2 months in I suspect you don't fully understand the lay of the land on BAU in this organisation if it's not your domain currently, although your prior experience gives you a head-start. If the quality / speed isn't up to standards that might be indicative of some fundamental issues lurking under the surface.
  • As you will be aware, both Insurance and Finance have a lot of regulatory change and that typically impacts both projects and BAU, making it a 'double-whammy' for someone in this position.
On the flipside having control over the BAU resources that you are regularly utilising has some benefits as you can make more holistic priority calls rather than having to go cap in hand to get people involved with projects.
If the money is right I wouldn't rule it out, I'd agree it probably gives some more security as a 'Head of Finance Change' (or whatever you are) can easily be swept aside by a new broom coming in with their own views / people.
 
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3 days of being a jobless bum so far.

2 interviews with one place done, and a first interview at another.

Then next week 3 more first interviews plus some more to be scheduled.

Also leveraging my personal network for opportunities which has uncovered a few possibilities, so not all doom and gloom just yet!
 
3 days of being a jobless bum so far.

2 interviews with one place done, and a first interview at another.

Then next week 3 more first interviews plus some more to be scheduled.

Also leveraging my personal network for opportunities which has uncovered a few possibilities, so not all doom and gloom just yet!
Fingers crossed something suitable comes up for you.

Did you/will you get any kind of payment from your ex-employer?

I'm on a 3 month notice period, so I should get 3 months of salary if I'm let go, but I'm glad I've never had to test that out.
 
Think it’s working out as a month in lieu of notice, and another month as redundancy pay (so no tax on that one).

With that and what’s coming to me on payday I’m good for 4/5 months is need be before raiding other piggy banks.
 
I'd previously inferred that you used to work in Finance within the Insurance sector, assuming that's still the case I'd say there's a couple of things to be wary of (having been in a similar position on the IT side of things):
  • You will probably have tension between project resources and BAU resources to deal with, e.g. BAU folk not being happy with the changes being introduced by the project team, conversely project team feeling they are blocked by BAU, BAU not keeping to schedule due to the inherently volatile distractions etc. Because you straddle both it will be down to you to mediate (this isn't all bad because at least you should be empowered to drive towards a mutually acceptable outcome and have influence over both sides, but it can be stressful)
  • As you have highlighted, capacity is a major challenge. The main reason I quit my role in this domain was the absolutely relentless nature of it all; do 6hrs of meeting and then hit the 50+ mail inbox, working on multiple programmes with 9-digit budgets in parallel with being accountable for critical BAU systems, managing a team of ~35, basically paralysed by complexity and competing priorities leaving no time for innovation.
  • At less than 2 months in I suspect you don't fully understand the lay of the land on BAU in this organisation if it's not your domain currently, although your prior experience gives you a head-start. If the quality / speed isn't up to standards that might be indicative of some fundamental issues lurking under the surface.
  • As you will be aware, both Insurance and Finance have a lot of regulatory change and that typically impacts both projects and BAU, making it a 'double-whammy' for someone in this position.
On the flipside having control over the BAU resources that you are regularly utilising has some benefits as you can make more holistic priority calls rather than having to go cap in hand to get people involved with projects.
If the money is right I wouldn't rule it out, I'd agree it probably gives some more security as a 'Head of Finance Change' (or whatever you are) can easily be swept aside by a new broom coming in with their own views / people.
Thanks for the reply, think you mostly hit the nail on the head but I'll give a bit more detail about the specifics.

You're completely correct in that I'm a Finance bod working in Insurance, although I specialise in the Regulatory Capital side of things. I've been with this employer for a year now, 10 months as a contractor landing a significant capital related project, and now 2 months in a perm role leading the Finance aspect of several other capital/capital adjacent projects we have going on. While project work will not last forever, I'm not in any fear of running out of work anytime soon.

At the moment everything I do is ad-hoc, there is no concept of BAU in my role. One minute I'm preparing a piece of work to brief the regulator, next I'll be scenario planning how various strategy permuations could play out. Its all the best bits of a capital role without any of the more mundane BAU aspects.

BAU tasks are basically regulatory reporting, production of certain publically available documents, complaince with internal / external audit, rolling forecasting of the capital position multiple entities across a number of countries and regulatory frameworks. All BAU tasks are on track but its apparent it would be benefit from a bit more direction, leadership and integration with the wider finance function. At the moment its a team of people left to kick numbers around a spreadsheet with no exposure to the rest of the business and no credit given for the important work they do. In addition to this there are the concerns I have around process inefficiencies and the time taken to provide outputs.

I've ran a BAU function like this before in a different organisation, although it was in a manager capacity rather than Head of level. It was also with a much leaner, less qualified team.

The end goal will be one integrated function, BAU and Project activies all coalesced into one team. I'll need to develop the team away from their current spreadsheet / modelling focus and get them engaged in providing insightful analysis alongside their numbers and owning the narrative behind our capital story, both internally and externally. There are other points around work prioritisation, general organisation and visibility to the rest of the business I want to address to - which is why I wan't to bring in another manager in a support role to manage change, timetabling, etc etc.

I think I've talked myself into it providing the money is right. I don't love the BAU aspects of the role but if I do my job properly in 6 months time I shouldn't need to be hands on with it and I feel like I can make a relatively large difference in a short time frame.
 
Have the second interview for Test Lab Manager role tomorrow, with the hiring manager and the CTO.

Feeling pretty confident and calm but still very much worrying about the pay issue. There is zero discussion or transparency around this and it's nonsense TBH. I'm convinced they will make an offensively low offer and I will respond with an impossibly high one they can't give me. I just feel like it won't end well and I'll compromise drastically. That, or play hardball and have to say no thanks and go back to my existing role and start pushing for a payrise again.

Girlfriend suggested I negotiate 4 days a week for the same money if they offer something unrealistically low. I hate how opaque money seems to be with hiring these days.
 
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You must be mad, committing to two interviews before knowing the salary.
It's an internal role so it's effectively free time off :D

But I'm now concerned that the pay band might be literally a paycut despite moving into line management. So yeah, lesson learned, in future I'll never go anywhere without a sensible salary estimate.
 
My new hire is amazing. She's taken a lot of the pressure off and has taken some of the work load and just shot off with it, and doing it with very little need for intervention from me. I've been able to get ontop of some of the other bits of work I had been delaying and feeling like I'm actually finally getting some value add stuff done rather than just strategy and planning!
 
So I changed jobs at the tail end of last year. Staff Operations position became available at the site as someone moved offshore, I was the natural replacement - same skillset / trade background - and know the site (arguably and demonstratively) better than a lot of the Ops techs already. So much so that it was assumed I would walk into the position by everyone there. Got to the final interview and smashed it. Week goes by and on a Monday morning I get the "Unfortunately..." Discussion with the Ops Lead. Was very frustrating getting that feedback as it was incredibly positive, ideal candidate bla bla bla. The position was awarded to an external candidate that, how shall I put it? Has a bit of a reputation for being a liability... Also turns out his father is friends with the hiring manager so I lost interest at that point. Definitely cleared my head and made my mind up that I was no longer needed there and started actively looking...

And through the magic power of LinkedIn I saw a position open at a power station 10 minutes down the road from the house and was interested so started doing some background research on the company and its key player staff, as you do. An hour or so later the plant manager messages me asking if I was interested in the position, and if so to send a CV over. They had me come in the next day for an interview and a week later job offer was on the table after a quick phonecall on my journey to work. It meant a slight paycut, but my daily travel time would go down to 15-20 minutes total as opposed to 55-70 minutes each way... Said I'd mull it over and get back to them. Got to work, one thing annoyed me and I thought ******** to this, phoned him back and accepted straight away.

My two immediate colleagues, and friends, understood and supported the decision despite being disappointed to see me go - will make their lives quite a bit harder as I do/did a lot. Emailed my boss with notice and then the panic started. Because I had switched to contracting a few years prior and then jumped back into FTE post-IR35 (joyous blanket assessments...) my years service was reset and I was back down to two weeks notice, much to my delight. I was like a giddy child at Christmas. So much stress, annoyance and anger instantly lifted and that was the best two weeks of working in a long time. Several conversations with the management team asking if I could extend my notice period - I relented and gave them extra time. A two whole days, taking me up to Friday December 16th and starting the new job the following Monday - no more room to extend that period any further!

So since then I've been enjoying the new job. Slightly different role - I'm an instrument and controls technician and now a combined electrical, control and instrumentation technician so I've picked up the C&I elements without issue, and just acclimatising to the electrical side of things for now. Seems a lot more empowered to implement change here too - coming from one of the biggest players in it's industry to a relatively small operator that is trying to run very lean means they're keen to hear how other people do things, what lessons can be learned etc which is right up my street.

Interestingly a second vacancy came up for the previous position due to internal promotion, and I was kept as a "hire at next opportunity" candidate meaning the job was offered straight to me before being advertised. Took a weekend to have a good think about it and a lot of soul-searching but ultimately decided I didn't want to go back - none of the plethora of issues I had were addressed, the site had gone from bad to worse in the three months I've been gone, would be returning to the stupid commute (though shift work, so working 14 days out of 35) on top of 12 hour shifts. The money and benefits far outweighs what I get at the new place, but you know what? Sod the money. My mental health has gotten so much better I'm like a new person. I've got energy to do things, I'm picking up old and new hobbies, I have so much more spare time each day (no kids yet, but that was a factor for the future), and we're financially comfortable as we are anyway so don't need to be chasing the money like nothing else matters.

Hiring manager was shocked when I said no, but I was incredibly polite about the whole thing and even said had I have had half the commute I'd probably be saying yes to it, but that commute was absolutely killer and I'd definitely end up in car crashes doing that commute in combination with the 12 hour shifts...

Cherry on the cake was at the start of the new year my new employer did a pay review and I'm now on more than what I left too! :D

So long post... But TL;DR: changed jobs, mental health skyrocketed, old place wants me back - no chance!!
 
Wow! What a post...it sincerely made me happy and smile to read that it's all worked out for you. Best of luck for the future!
 
Friday December 16th and starting the new job the following Monday - no more room to extend that period any further!
Cherry on the cake was at the start of the new year my new employer did a pay review and I'm now on more than what I left too! :D
You've done well to start a job on 19th December and then get a pay review straight away in the new year, some companies have a threshold like no pay review if you joined in the last 3 months or whatever on the basis that effectively your salary has been recently calibrated.

Sounds to me like probably the right call on not going back, it could be they maybe even realised what a loss you were and decided to create this opening to get you back, rather than it just happening by chance. I'm definitely not against the idea of returning to prior employers in general but there's something that doesn't quite sit right with me about rejecting a candidate for job X and then very soon after they quit, offering them the equivalent job you just rejected them for, it makes you question their decision process / if they really do value you for that specific role versus being worried about the impact of losing tacit knowledge etc. Of course that isn't black and white, it's quite possible to have two outstanding candidates for a single position and hence you have to reject someone you rate highly, but even so....
 
You've done well to start a job on 19th December and then get a pay review straight away in the new year, some companies have a threshold like no pay review if you joined in the last 3 months or whatever on the basis that effectively your salary has been recently calibrated.

Sounds to me like probably the right call on not going back, it could be they maybe even realised what a loss you were and decided to create this opening to get you back, rather than it just happening by chance. I'm definitely not against the idea of returning to prior employers in general but there's something that doesn't quite sit right with me about rejecting a candidate for job X and then very soon after they quit, offering them the equivalent job you just rejected them for, it makes you question their decision process / if they really do value you for that specific role versus being worried about the impact of losing tacit knowledge etc. Of course that isn't black and white, it's quite possible to have two outstanding candidates for a single position and hence you have to reject someone you rate highly, but even so....
Oh I get what you mean. New place had every right to not include me on any pay review, and I was expecting them not to when they announced it would be taking place. But I get the feeling in the very short time I was there they saw my worth, and already knew how difficult it was to get my skill set in the area.

I know exactly what is / was going on with my old place, still got close friends there so I get all the gossip and inside info. It was genuine position opening up and I would have slotted in without issue - though I may have hated myself morally for doing it. I appreciate the two outstanding candidates angle as well - but believe me, you wouldn't go near the successful chap with a barge pole even if he was the last man around.

Whilst they value knowledge, experience, expertise etc, they would never "be held hostage" so there's only so much one can ask of them - the pay offer would have been around 50% above what I now earn, plus the very generous benefits package, bonus scheme etc. But I'm happy with my decision, I feel a lot more involved at the new place. And as of today I've started commuting on a bike! Never would have thought I'd be doing that!
 
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2 weeks since redundancy, mixed emotions/stress levels during this time, still on the hunt.

Have fires in irons but still waiting for that elusive offer.

Had one place where I went through their interview process quickly, then come desicion time they picked someone else :( But feedback was good, and they said any other positions they have come up they'll give me a call.

Finding it quite draining though, not enjoying the uncertainty, and whilst we're good living of the redundancy for a few months there's always that worry that it'll go on past then (which we have savings to cover us, but obviously not what we'd planned to use them for).

Hoping the next two weeks won't be too quiet what with the holidays.
 
Work came back to me with the 'absolute maximum' salary offer for the new role, £15k below the minimum I'd want to accept it. Luckily I have a close relationship with the director looking to make the change and we are friends outside of work or my immediate reaction of 'hah, get ****ed' could have gone badly.

He is off to pick a fight with HR now.
 
Work came back to me with the 'absolute maximum' salary offer for the new role, £15k below the minimum I'd want to accept it. Luckily I have a close relationship with the director looking to make the change and we are friends outside of work or my immediate reaction of 'hah, get ****ed' could have gone badly.

He is off to pick a fight with HR now.
This is what I am expecting to have to deal with this week. IF I get the job offer I expect they'll offer ~10% payrise when I'd say I should get 15k more. So have to be prepared to, politely, smiling, say no thanks, please try again.
 
This is what I am expecting to have to deal with this week. IF I get the job offer I expect they'll offer ~10% payrise when I'd say I should get 15k more. So have to be prepared to, politely, smiling, say no thanks, please try again.
They offered me the job. 10% payrise to go into line management, full time in-office, much more responsibility. Uncomfortable negotiation time.

Glad the hiring manager is my old boss as we know and trust each other and at no point during the conversation did we let the money issue get in the way of our actual relationship or the fact we're keen to progress this new job role... Which was nice.
 
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