This is getting ridiculous (energy prices - Strictly NO referrals!)

[GIBURROWS]

The ‘original infrastructure‘ has about £1.5bn investment per year.
About 3% of a household bill covers infrastructure costs, (April 2022) so virtually nothing.

Also, National Grid investing about £50bn into upgrading the network, over the next 8 years
: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62085297

Do some research before you claim it a ‘massive con’

It's a stealth tax so still a massive con.

 

[Doobedoo]

The ‘original infrastructure‘ has about £1.5bn investment per year.
About 3% of a household bill covers infrastructure costs, (April 2022) so virtually nothing.

Also, National Grid investing about £50bn into upgrading the network, over the next 8 years
: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62085297

Do some research before you claim it a ‘massive con’

So that’s 54bil to help offshore wind farms produce and distribute electricity around the country. Presumably these farms will be owned by corporate interests and will likely sell the energy back to us at inflated market rates?

 

[GIBURROWS]

So that’s 54bil to help offshore wind farms produce and distribute electricity around the country. Presumably these farms will be owned by corporate interests and will likely sell the energy back to us at inflated market rates?

But not a con....

 

[413x]

I don't really understand how stock markets aren't in free fall.

This is at least a European catastrophe waiting to happen. A lot of major economies on the line.


Even people in price fixes could be vulnerable as if there is too much non payment could all energy suppliers just leave?

 

[SDK^]

It's a stealth tax so still a massive con.

It’s only a stealth tax if you can‘t be bothered to do any research and learn.
There are plenty of sources which explain where the money comes from and goes - Gov sites, Ofgem, NG ESO, news sites and a load of energy analyst sites.

But not a con....

You are basically complaining about paying £40 a year to fund a very reliable energy network, which is investing to go green and reduce bills by a larger amount
That’s not a con

You think we should stay having to rely on imported gas at ever increasing costs !?!
The current Government energy support handouts are about £20bn, that’s before they need to provide more to support the massive increase coming.

£54bn over 8 years to build a larger renewable energy network, is a drop in the ocean cost.

 

[bigmike20vt]

So that’s 54bil to help offshore wind farms produce and distribute electricity around the country. Presumably these farms will be owned by corporate interests and will likely sell the energy back to us at inflated market rates?

well that is the problem with privatised energy rather than nationalised. but like it or not we need renewable energy.
I hate it as well. but I hate forcing a global climate catastrophy on my lad or potential grandkids even more.

 

[200sols]

I don't really understand how stock markets aren't in free fall.

This is at least a European catastrophe waiting to happen. A lot of major economies on the line.


Even people in price fixes could be vulnerable as if there is too much non payment could all energy suppliers just leave?

Bubbles have deflated this year already, valuations are down but the pound tanking has shielded UK investors from seeing a lot of the falls on the American stock markets.

 

[Doobedoo]

I can find nothing that states that this £54bil investment is the cause of the standing charge increase.

 

[Doobedoo]

well that is the problem with privatised energy rather than nationalised. but like it or not we need renewable energy.
I hate it as well. but I hate forcing a global climate catastrophy on my lad or potential grandkids even more.

I’m happy to pay for the cost of renewable energy but I’m not happy to pay for corporate interests to then own and profit from it. Anyone with half a brain cell, would prefer for the public to fund and own these installations and then reap the reward of lower energy price for energy produced.

 

[GIBURROWS]

I can find nothing that states that this £54bil investment is the cause of the standing charge increase.

Just go along with it.

 

[Doobedoo]

Interesting.

Who sets gas and electricity standing charges?​

Your energy supplier sets the level of gas and electricity standing charges that you have to pay, but Ofgem limits how much suppliers can charge.

Ofgem ruled that energy tariffs no longer need include a standing charge following recommendations by the Competition and Markets Authority back in 2016. However, the vast majority of energy suppliers continue to add them as part of the overall energy cost.

Gas And Electricity Standing Charges Explained

If you check your energy bills, you might notice they include so-called ‘standing charges’, as well as the amount you pay for the gas and/or electricity yo

www.forbes.com

 

[SDK^]

So that’s 54bil to help offshore wind farms produce and distribute electricity around the country. Presumably these farms will be owned by corporate interests and will likely sell the energy back to us at inflated market rates?

Investing in our own sustainable energy network is what we need to avoid reliance on imported gas/enegy at ever increasing costs.
£54bn is probably less than the amount the Government will be handing out to support the unaffordable energy bills over the next 12 months.

 

[Doobedoo]

Investing in our own sustainable energy network is what we need to avoid reliance on imported gas/enegy at ever increasing costs.
£54bn is probably less than the amount the Government will be handing out to support the unaffordable enegy bills over the next 12 months.

I agree completely but I’m not sure it’s leading or going to lead to affordable energy. As has already been said isn't the renewable energy being generated in this country being sold at current market rates?

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

if the average bill really does top £4500pa I could imagine riots. it is the kind of thing you normally see happening at the start of some post apocalyptic film just before the brownstuff hits the fan.
the only saving grace could be it may be a reality check for the nimby people who don't want wind generation in their local area. I would have supported it anyway as I think they look great and are necessary but surely a few of these around the outskirts of all towns in fields will put a dent in it (and provide well paid employment building them?)

storage of excess electricity will obviously be an issue as well. pumping water up hill will only do so much in some areas, batteries are expensive
(grid scale)
I have seen some interesting solutions for home "heat" batteries. essentially just a giant insulated stone block which off peak electricity heats up for use when needed, but grid scale surely this will be where hydrogen comes in.

hydrogen as an energy store is not great when your energy is coming from gas, but when it's from excess wind or solar the. it seems fantastic to me (note I am a biologist not an electrical engineer so feel free to tell me I am wrong )

2 other techs being worked on that I know of
sand storage (heat the sand, drop hot sand to power turbines, feed cold sand back into silos to heat when more excess energy available)
compressing normal air. So compress the air when excess energy into storage tanks, use the compressed air to drive turbines when needed

both more commercial solutions but ideal to put the compressed air alongside solar/wind farms

actually was a 3rd for offshore. Giant water bags under pressure, so pump them up when excess and allow them to reverse drive the pumps/turbines when needed

end result will be many techs best suited to the space/environment I suspect

 

[SDK^]

I agree completely but I’m not sure it’s leading or going to lead to affordable energy. As has already been said isn't the renewable energy being generated in this country being sold at current market rates?

Currently yes, in the future no.
Policy reviews are already underway to de-couple gas and renewable energy costs. There is also the Contract for Difference (CfD) already in place, where renewable generators give back when the unit costs goes over the strike price.

CfD explained in a graph

 

[bigmike20vt]

2 other techs being worked on that I know of
sand storage (heat the sand, drop hot sand to power turbines, feed cold sand back into silos to heat when more excess energy available)
compressing normal air. So compress the air when excess energy into storage tanks, use the compressed air to drive turbines when needed

both more commercial solutions but ideal to put the compressed air alongside solar/wind farms

actually was a 3rd for offshore. Giant water bags under pressure, so pump them up when excess and allow them to reverse drive the pumps/turbines when needed

end result will be many techs best suited to the space/environment I suspect

indeed it is all really interesting. if they can make those under water bags work that is great as won't be an eyesore for the nimbys. I guess you know already but Fully Charged YouTube channel has lots of interesting stuff on this . the future of energy generation is actually looking pretty bright imo it's just not quite ready for the current problems.
I know when my lad is a bit older I will be hoping be takes an interest in this sort of thing as I imagine there will be a lot of employment opportunities around it.

talking about compressed air, about 20 years ago Tata were working on a car powered by compressed air. am guessing nothing came of it

 

[413x]

indeed it is all really interesting. if they can make those under water bags work that is great as won't be an eyesore for the nimbys. I guess you know already but Fully Charged YouTube channel has lots of interesting stuff on this . the future of energy generation is actually looking pretty bright imo it's just not quite ready for the current problems.
I know when my lad is a bit older I will be hoping be takes an interest in this sort of thing as I imagine there will be a lot of employment opportunities around it.

talking about compressed air, about 20 years ago Tata were working on a car powered by compressed air. am guessing nothing came of it

Yeah going to be so much investment in it.

Need to get through this brutal stage now as significant progress is probably a decade away in terms of getting benefit from it.

Maybe putin has helped the climate crisis. Because it sure wouldn't be such a hot topic without these sky high prices

 

[Doobedoo]

Currently yes, in the future no.
Policy reviews are already underway to de-couple gas and renewable energy costs. There is also the Contract for Difference (CfD) already in place, where renewable generators give back when the unit costs goes over the strike price.

CfD explained in a graph

So what has taken so long? Renewable energy is hardly a new thing. We need action now not some time down the line.

 

[SDK^]

So what has taken so long? Renewable energy is hardly a new thing. We need action now not some time down the line.

It’s only the recent huge increase in gas price which has made this an issue. Previously the CfD process has been effective to managing renewable pricing and cost recovery.
It’s also massively complicated to implement into the contracts already in place.

 

[Doobedoo]

It’s only the recent huge increase in gas price which has made this an issue. Previously the CfD process has been effective to managing renewable pricing and cost recovery.
It’s also massively complicated to implement into the contracts already in place.

Ok so we should be entitled to a refund once they finish crunching all the numbers. I mean all this renewable energy being sold at a massive profit who is profiting from it? And when will they be made to give it back.