This is striking me as odd

Dave M · 29 May 2003 at 13:49

A station that played r&b, rap etc. wouldn't be to my taste but couldn't be called racist.

A station that says 'we play black music' quite clearly is, these rock stations play rock, they don't say 'oh look at us we play white music'. Do we still have those awarrds, like the brits but for 'black music', shall we have a 'white brit awards'? No blacks please, white music only.

Racism isn't a solid object you can see or measure, it's a perception, hence racism is only possible if one person or group of persons perceives it as such. If you had the 'white only music station' there would be an outcry - it would be perceived by many people (mostly white) as being racist. The black station is not perceived as being racist by any major group thus it is not.

Obviously this doesn't follow any pattern of logic but it's how it is at the moment.

Originally posted by burns_2k
There is quite a variety of music on DAB, its deffinatley worth getting. Anyway, a bit more back on topic, stations like plane rock and 6Music to a lesser extent largely play only "white music" rock being predominanlty done by white males.

crab · 29 May 2003 at 15:01

telescopi

You could say that's where PC/racism comes into it but I don't think so.

You could hardly define white music as a whole. For a start it's all derived from the original black music. There are black artists in every genre you're likely to hear on UK radio. Apart from maybe classical

Just as there are white artists in RnB, Garage etc.

But I think the rise of 'black music' links to the fact that minority groups don't see themselves as anything but minority groups. They are full english citizens so they need their culture represented. They feel different. So now we've got the mobo awards, 1xtra etc. there's no real problem with this esp. when you can take it or leave it.

Bear · 29 May 2003 at 15:45

Originally posted by Telescopi
A station that played r&b, rap etc. wouldn't be to my taste but couldn't be called racist.

A station that says 'we play black music' quite clearly is, these rock stations play rock, they don't say 'oh look at us we play white music'. Do we still have those awarrds, like the brits but for 'black music', shall we have a 'white brit awards'? No blacks please, white music only.

Racism isn't a solid object you can see or measure, it's a perception, hence racism is only possible if one person or group of persons perceives it as such. If you had the 'white only music station' there would be an outcry - it would be perceived by many people (mostly white) as being racist. The black station is not perceived as being racist by any major group thus it is not.

Obviously this doesn't follow any pattern of logic but it's how it is at the moment.

A radio station that plays music of black origin is not a station that is a black station. Its just that they play black music, there is a very distinct difference, the music is for all. Just like there are country music stations. Black music has a differing style and that style has been the form/roots of many differing music genres.

If in these brit awards many many years ago, black musicians weren't being recognised even though their popularity said otherwise, would it not be fair then for them to start awards, that would recognise their achievements ??

[TW]Fox · 29 May 2003 at 15:52

Why don't we have a 'Music of White Origin' awards?

afraser2k · 29 May 2003 at 15:56

Who can define "white music"? I'm all for a "black music" station as hopefully it'll reduce it's playtime on established stations like Radio One.

[TW]Fox · 29 May 2003 at 16:08

Originally posted by afraser2k
Who can define "white music"? I'm all for a "black music" station as hopefully it'll reduce it's playtime on established stations like Radio One.

But it didn't - thats the point.

astralcars · 29 May 2003 at 16:49

Originally posted by [TW]Fox
Why don't we have a 'Music of White Origin' awards?

Because nobody has attempted to set up something like that. What genres would come under the category of 'music of white origin'. Rock? Country? Classical? Chances are, there are awards for these genres anyway. I know I wouldn't have a problem with it - provided non-whites were not excluded from winning such awards.

wassap · 29 May 2003 at 17:02

Originally posted by [TW]Fox
Why don't we have a 'Music of White Origin' awards?

What do think most rock etc awards are? nme and the like, again some peeps cant seem to get tthis basic fact in their tiny little head, black music isnt about color or anything it is a genre, in its own right with all varying colours and creeds.why is that so difficult to understand???? :rolleyes:

Music isnt about color, never has never will be, ffs two of the biggest hip hop stars today, eminem and j.timberlake, illustrate this perfectly, if it was these two would not have been where they are, and peeps like hendrix would not have been so highly regarded. :rolleyes:

ironman · 29 May 2003 at 19:40

Black music in that term best describes the style of music, not the colour of the artists. wohoo gave some great examples, Justin Timberlake is on everywhere you go, is he black? Errr...no.

I dont see what the problem is, all I see is people from the white population kicking up a fuss about petty little things. So what if you cant have a radio station called white radio, look around, your dominating the world already. Just give the ethnic minorities that much at least :rolleyes:

Fox why should R1 stop playing hiphop and the like? 1xtra is not a mainstream broadcast like R1 it is availabe AS DAB ONLY, so until I can listen to 1xtra in the car I would still like the chance of listening to it on the radio at some time.

Garp · 29 May 2003 at 21:05

Originally posted by TheDogFather
Ive got a few non white friends in America and they say its very racist over there, which is a bit strange as they all come from somewhere else apart from the native americans (indians) who incidently get treated the worse out of all of them.

America, one messed up country, so why do we follow them down the same road ?

TDF.

On the other hand, most states have laws which state that the only casinos allowed to operate in their state must be American Indian owned and managed. All profits from the casino goes to the American Indians, allowing them to continue to live a traditional life. The Americans are nicely contributing to their lifestyle

ironman · 29 May 2003 at 21:54

Originally posted by Garp
On the other hand, most states have laws which state that the only casinos allowed to operate in their state must be American Indian owned and managed. All profits from the casino goes to the American Indians, allowing them to continue to live a traditional life. The Americans are nicely contributing to their lifestyle

Too right, good to see they are getting back what was theirs in the first place.

Shadez · 30 May 2003 at 10:35

Ex-RoNiN , and eveyone else, (you jus dont understand the POV im trying to get across).

I will addmit when i first started to post, i haddent spent a long time thinking on the subject, as such there are holes. These have been plugged.

1) The Voting thing is another Topic. i wont go into it at the moment.

2) You seem fixated on me insisting short term visitors (studets, or whatever) have to become Brittish. This is not what i have been saying, read my posts again?

3) Ex-RoNiN, i dont think you can call your self completly greek, if you dont live in grease.(this is just my opinion, I dont know what the legal position on this is)- its purly the word completly that made me post the comment before.

4)

You are still an alien in that country until such time you chose to be naturalised, end of story, not the funny story you have cunjoured in your own mind of what citizenship means.

Did i ever say thing were currently different??(and would not change), This is purly how i think things should work, Read my posts again. :rolleyes:

5)

If I decided to move to Cardiff would I have to call myself Welsh?

Definatly

, no to be serious you are still by my definition Brittish of english origin.

6) If you look at my posts another way you would notice that (By my opinion), we are all European of Greek, Brittish.... ect origin. As such it doesnt matter where in europe you are.

7) I would have to check this out but, i think my system is very close to the way the USA works. (not all american ideas are bad)

But at the end of the day this is only my opinoin. If we were all to follow Ex-RoNiN's example no one would be a citizen of any contry
:confused:

Ex-RoNiN · 30 May 2003 at 10:55

Originally posted by Shadez
1) The Voting thing is another Topic. i wont go into it at the moment.

Why not? Free your mind

3) Ex-RoNiN, i dont think you can call your self completly greek, if you dont live in greece.(this is just my opinion, I dont know what the legal position on this is)- its purly the word completly that made me post the comment before.

So why is this then? What am I missing out about life in Greece that is not making me completely Greek? If you were living in New Zealand, say, what would be missing from your life that would not make you completely British?

6) If you look at my posts another way you would notice that (By my opinion), we are all European of Greek, Brittish.... ect origin. As such it doesnt matter where in europe you are.

For once I agree

But at the end of the day this is only my opinoin. If we were all to follow Ex-RoNiN's example no one would be a citizen of any contry

No, if you were to follow my example, then you would be a citizen of the country you associate yourself with, regardless of where you are in the world currently.

Garp · 30 May 2003 at 12:44

Originally posted by gurdas
Too right, good to see they are getting back what was theirs in the first place.

*srug* It's a start anyway

Their reservations are quite large too, but certainly not anywhere near as large as the landmass currently occupied by the immigrants.

Shadez · 30 May 2003 at 12:59

No, if you were to follow my example, then you would be a citizen of the country you associate yourself with, regardless of where you are in the world currently.

May i point you to the definition of a citizen, I dont Beleave you fall into this catagory.

citizen ['sýtýzən]
noun
a native registered or naturalized member of a state, nation, or other political community

1) You are not naturalized.
2) If you are living abroad you will not be registered (but this i take it to meen on the electral role, or paying taxes to greace).

hence if you are not a citizen of greace how can you be completly greak??? again its the word completly that lets you down.

But to stop this going on forever......
You are greak

, but you must accept that some ppl will not c you as completely greek because you dont leave in greace. (its jus the way different ppl look at the world)

Very quickly then the vote thing (this realy needs thread all of its own)

By voting you are exosizing your democratic right, to express your opinion, in the way the world is run (correct)?

If you chose not to vote, then you are saying i dont have an opinion(or you c your opinion not to matter). If this is the case then y should anyone listen to what you have to say on any subject since you have said your self your opinion doesnt matter. :rolleyes:

Bear · 30 May 2003 at 13:11

Originally posted by Shadez
.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are still an alien in that country until such time you chose to be naturalised, end of story, not the funny story you have cunjoured in your own mind of what citizenship means.
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Did i ever say thing were currently different??(and would not change), This is purly how i think things should work, Read my posts again.

But at the end of the day this is only my opinoin. If we were all to follow Ex-RoNiN's example no one would be a citizen of any contry

Yes you did say differently. We have laid out the terms of what entail citizenship to you. You then agree to the concept, but then you go off and re define it in your own terms which arent even correct.

Ex Ronin doesnt seek citizenship in any of the countries he lives in because he doesnt want to. If he did he would go through the legal channels to do so.

The dictionary definition for citizenship is : The status of a citizen with its attendant duties, rights, and privileges.

You dont get that until you go through the legal channels to do so. It has nothing to do with the fanciful definition that you have conjoured in your head.

Your opinion on citizenship is your opinion, but has no bearing in the real world. It is for this reason you are not able to get your point across.

Bear · 30 May 2003 at 13:19

Originally posted by Shadez

By voting you are exosizing your democratic right, to express your opinion, in the way the world is run (correct)?

If you chose not to vote, then you are saying i dont have an opinion(or you c your opinion not to matter). If this is the case then y should anyone listen to what you have to say on any subject since you have said your self your opinion doesnt matter.

Wrong, you are not excersing your right to vote in your own country, or your naturalised country not the world.

If people dont vote, it doesnt always mean they dont have an opinion, it might mean that they do have an opinion on the fact that none of the candidates are worth voting for in the running of the country

How you equate the option to vote on your countries affairs, to not having a valid opinion on race is beyond me. I can only assume that you are either a troll or that you have a very distorted sense of logic. :confused:

Shadez · 30 May 2003 at 14:25

Wrong, you are not excersing your right to vote in your own country, or your naturalised country not the world.

Am I? first in saying the world i did actualy mean the country you voted in. But in chosing a govermant, you are chosing the way inwitch your county acts towards "the world"- hence my using the word WORLD in this instace is in part accurate.

By posting i am wrong you are displaying an inibility to read between the words to what people are trying to say.(not everyone is a littuary genius.)

If people dont vote, it doesnt always mean they dont have an opinion, it might mean that they do have an opinion on the fact that none of the candidates are worth voting for in the running of the country

Have you ever heard of abstaining???? :rolleyes:

Everyone should vote.

This Vote thing is just a thought that popped into my head when writing the post the other day. I thought i would put it in to see your reactions.

Bear · 30 May 2003 at 15:48

Originally posted by Shadez

Have you ever heard of abstaining????
Everyone should vote.

Of course I have heard of abstaining. I personally go and spoil my ballot paper by writing "none of them are worth voting for" across the paper.

It is the choice of the person to make their point how they want, it still doesnt negate the fact that just because you dont happen to vote, that you cant have an opinion on non country realted political debates.

Just beacuse I happen to vote for a given government, it doesnt necessarily mean that you are happy with what the government's foreign policy is either. So no we dont always have a choice in how the government acts towards the world.

Im sure many people that voted Labour also didnt want to go to war with Iraq, but we went anyway.

I apologise if I am not understanding what you are getting at, but I dont do reading between the lines, unless Im reading a newspaper or watching the news, as I generally expect normal people to be honest enough to dircetly say what they want to without beating around the bush. This is generally beause people on forums dont normally have a hidden agenda.

Shadez · 30 May 2003 at 16:21

Hidden agenda? I have none...

(wait i do..... its time to release my troops, and take over the world....haaa, ha, ha ,ha ,haaaaa.....)

Of course I have heard of abstaining. I personally go and spoil my ballot paper by writing "none of them are worth voting for" across the paper.

Nice to see you agree with me then, In part anyway.

I say abstaining is differnet to not voting.
By abstaining you are saying "i dont want any of the options given to me". If enough people do this then parties will look and say "50% of the country is abstaining y? maby we should changing are policies..." - (unlikly but it could happen)

By not voting you are saying "I DONT CARE!". Do what you want with the country, i have no opinion (or my opinion doesnt matter) on this important matter.

But voting, how you vote and y you vote is another subject. We could start a thread on it if you like.