Poll: Thoughts on internet piracy?

[Diddums]

Ooooh, one of my favourite topics. A few thoughts:

I have BT Vision with the Sky pack and Netflix. We also have Amazon Prime which gives us access to loads of TV shows and whatnot. Thing is, as this stuff is all spread all over various devices, I use a media PC to automatically download all the shows I want as and when they're released, which are then streamed via Plex to any device I want.

Now had you asked me a year ago if this was ok, I'd have said yes because I pay for the content already, I just choose to source it elsewhere. However! How many people are potentially losing out because of me doing this? Granted Amazon is losing nothing because I'm still paying them, as are Netflix, Sky and BT. But what about any smaller middlemen? Are they losing out?

Same with any BBC stuff - if I download an episode of Top Gear from a torrent site but pay my TV licence anyway, are they losing out? From what I can tell, their only loss is the revenue from ads, which I didn't give consent to anyway.

Films - I download copious amounts of films, but I also have Cineworld unlimited cards for my wife and I. Does this make my downloading illegal? And if so, in whose eyes? As far as I'm concerned, I pay for the licence to watch these films through my Cineworld card, but Cineworld is potentially losing out because I'm not watching their ads or buying their popcorn or drinks. In the same sense however, I could go to a cinema and only watch a film - no food or drink (sacriledge) and not be influenced by their ads - same effect.

So where do you draw the line? What's illegal and what's not?

 

[Kenai]

Streaming services are all very well but there still appears to be no way to actually buy content you can store locally, view offline, upload to a tablet for plane journeys, etc.

When you buy a film on Amazon Instant Video, you can use that offline in a limited capacity with a limited number of licenses at a cost that is equivalent to DVD/BR (usually £10 or so to buy an HD version).

This is about the best offering I am aware of and it's completely crap. You can only download to iPad, iPhone or Kindle and it's just as expensive as buying a disc based copy anyway.

 

[Moothead2]

Games get pirated because so much **** gets released for 35-50 quid with no demo to see if it's the right game for you.

Then don't pre-order and have a little patience. It's not hard.

 

[Smokey Deza]

Pirate downloads film.
Pirate raves about film to friends.
Friends buy films.

Of course I'm sure this scenario is factored into their bogus reports for lossed sales.

Also why am I allowed to lend my neighbor a hammer, but not a DVD?

 

[Mynight]

Same with any BBC stuff - if I download an episode of Top Gear from a torrent site but pay my TV licence anyway, are they losing out? From what I can tell, their only loss is the revenue from ads, which I didn't give consent to anyway.

The BBC won't lose anything if you're already paying your liscense they don't 'advertise'.

 

[twist3d0n3]

Then don't pre-order and have a little patience. It's not hard.

I don't pirate games, but I'd wager that's going to be a massive reason as to why.

 

[Moothead2]

I don't pirate games, but I'd wager that's going to be a massive reason as to why.

It's still a pretty **** poor excuse. If it's bad don't play it. You can easily tell if a game is worth your money through reviews and videos these days.

The comment wasn't directed specifically at you by the way .

 

[estebanrey]

If we could legally watch US TV shows here without waiting months and months, piracy of those would plummet - it's not a cost thing so much as a 'why should I wait?' and realistically, why should they? What REALLY prevents these shows being aired over here beyond a bunch of suits in an office who want exclusivity?

It's not really that but promotion. If you about to air your next season of a big TV show you want to send its stars around the globe to do chat shows and the likes to promote it to new viewers.

It also means their promotional departments can concentrate on each launch rather than needing huge teams or teams all over the globe.

They can also use their experiences from the US launch with the following launches. Say an advert they made didn't garner favourable responses, they'll change it for the UK launch and vice-versa.

There does come a point there in which the extra money/sales you get from that promotion are overtaken by the losses from people downloading because they don't want to wait.

I'm guessing 'most' people are still happy to let their local television providers show what they want and when. It's really only the 'megafans' who insist on watching the latest episode at the same time as it's shown elsewhere.

 

[Flibster]

There's too many ISP that still enforce a download limit to make streaming at decent quality universally possible.

At ~5gb an hour for top quality Netflix *iirc* soon uses that up.

Either that, or it's like my parents place where 720p youtube videos are at best, dodgy. 480 is often beyond the limit too. Not exactly great for streaming.

 

[=XDC=FluphyBunny]

Some of my work is out there for free, thanks to piracy. It is uncool and it does hurt the little guys like me, no matter what excuses people might come up with.

It is easy to forget the effect piracy has on the porn industry

 

[Westyfield2]

As above, piracy doesn't mean that the pirates don't ever buy anything.

I have Sky TV, a Lovefilm subscription, and went to the cinema today. I also have a torrent website in my favourites.

 

[Monkeynut]

There's too many ISP that still enforce a download limit to make streaming at decent quality universally possible.

At ~5gb an hour for top quality Netflix *iirc* soon uses that up.

Either that, or it's like my parents place where 720p youtube videos are at best, dodgy. 480 is often beyond the limit too. Not exactly great for streaming.

Netflix is trialling H265 and YouTube is working on VP10 so bitrates for these resolutions should drop in future.

 

[twist3d0n3]

It's still a pretty **** poor excuse. If it's bad don't play it. You can easily tell if a game is worth your money through reviews and videos these days.

The comment wasn't directed specifically at you by the way .

It's also a **** poor excuse to not release a demo

 

[Strife212]

if I download an episode of Top Gear from a torrent site but pay my TV licence anyway, are they losing out? From what I can tell, their only loss is the revenue from ads, which I didn't give consent to anyway.

The beeb doesn't carry any ads in the UK... or have any revenue other than the licence fee for that matter.

 

[Kenai]

Then there's stuff like people claiming they want to see/play/hear something and not risk wasting money if it turns out to be rubbish... but again, the producer of that content isn't forcing you to buy... you can abstain if you want... you can wait for proper reviews if you want... etc.

Yet simultaneously we have consumer laws in place to force retailers to give us reasonable opportunity to inspect and test physical goods bought unsighted, why should digital be any different?

Certainly in terms of download games they're generally all account tied, non-refundable etc. with no consumer protection at all, so it's not hard to understand why people choose to protect themselves when the option to do so is there.

 

[russell664]

I have voted on the poll.

I think it depends, but I don't agree with people stealing everything, and never giving developers any support, it is taking away their living.

I'm sure it applies to everything else software based too.

 

[dowie]

Well, of course it's not okay, but watch as the excuses roll in as people justify their actions and claim it's not stealing.

it isn't stealing, that involves depriving the original owner of the item, piracy is copyright infringement

I'm more in the it depends camp, I pay for content I like, if I do stream an episode from say a TV show I didn't catch when it was shown and I like it then I'll buy the boxed set, otherwise I'll not bother carrying on watching it. Yup I should have watched said show when it was broadcast and therefore seen the adverts that helped pay for it etc..

for movies/music well there doesn't seem to be much point these days when there are decent paid for streaming services... then again there is some potential for rule breaking here too - paying for the US version of a streaming service when you should be using the UK version etc.. is also a no no... (and also not stealing)

 

[norm]

I think piracy was more prevalent with the advent of the internet and its popularisation with the masses because the services weren't mature enough to cater to the demands of the people. Afterall, it took the rise Napster to spark the idea of itunes with Steve Jobs.

The majority of people know that piracy is morally wrong, but so long as you are not paying for pirated goods or selling them, it's really just packets of data being shared across the internet, it really doesn't effect a great deal.

 

[spoffle]

Well, of course it's not okay, but watch as the excuses roll in as people justify their actions and claim it's not stealing.

Stating facts isn't a justification and just because you're trying to label something as stealing doesn't mean it is. You are imposing the notion that it is stealing on people and then reacting with how they're only disagreeing to justify their actions.

It's actually a matter of fact that piracy isn't stealing, from a completely objective perspective. Copyright infringement typically doesn't satisfy the criteria to be defined as stealing, ergo it isn't.

Words and their definitions are very important with regards to context. For example, you will have watched or listened to something in YouTube, for example, that you haven't actually got the right to in a legal, copyright manner which is a matter of copyright infringement. Do you really mean to suggest that you would accept that you have therefore stolen what you watched because you didn't watch it whilst being in possession of the relevant license to do so?

To explain it further to you, when you buy media you are effectively purchasing a license (which gives you the right in a legal capacity) to legally consume that media. So if you have consumed media where you didn't have the license to do so, according to your logic you have just stolen something.

 

[dowie]

It's a game/film, not basic sustenance. If you can't get a very good idea of what you're paying for using forums/pro reviews/amateur reviews/game play videos/trailers/whatever, you're an idiot.

breaking bad looked good in the previews, first episode was good, reviews raved about it, people raved about it... I went out and bought the boxed set, am underwhelmed, story drags too much - don't get me wrong - I like it but it is hardly something that I'm very keen to watch the next episode immediately after finishing one. It isn't like the Sopranos, Game of Thrones, Boardwalk Empire, Heroes season 1...

And that's the other thing, Heroes was another one where I regretted buying a boxed set - I'd actually borrowed rather than streamed season 1, I was completely hooked, bought the complete collection... season 2 just sucked in comparison (the writers strike evidently had a huge impact) and it didn't recover in the other seasons either...

I'd really dispute the idea that just reviews and previews/trailers can necessarily tell you whether you'd like something. Then again, in my examples I guess pirating or borrowing the first few episodes doesn't either.