Time to ‘rethink school’?

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quick google suggest this checks out

Hong Kong has similar hours to us however Singapore tends to finish circa 1pm and Finland circa 2pm or so...

Singapore probably has the highest homework load on average with 9 hours per week - I guess that more than compensates for the shorter school days though is the complete opposite of the direction the OP would like schools to move towards

Our school has just implemented Singapore maths which is more interactive and visual than the old way of learning and reciting your times tables. It’s a different way of teaching maths (I’m not saying it is better statistically) however I do know that my son is more interested in maths now than before.

I think removing homework is the key. We get evening homework, weekend homework, holiday homework and projects. So through the back door ‘school’ is longer than Monday to Friday 08:45 to 15:00 as it stands.
 
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And that is my fundamental point I’m not suggesting we do more of the same cause as you agree a lot of school was boring with no practical interaction with the children. What I’m suggesting is that we make learning more fun and interactive. Teach for the high skilled job of the future whilst at the same time dedicate more time to physical education, the arts, drama and practical skills such as food tech.

School is boring but there is nothing to say it has to be.

I have no doubt that school today is different to when I was at school. For starters my son does yoga once a fortnight and eats many more exotic foods than I ever did at school, but are we honestly going to sit here and claim that the current teaching program is perfect and there is no room for improvement or a better way?

Somehow, children should be taught that going to school and learning new things everyday is a very good thing.
But most students (unlike me, actually) never accept this idea and prefer to avoid school and studying, and instead do other things with their friends who share the same views.

It is somehow in human nature to hate learning and learning more.
 
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Beware of wiring plugs at home; I think it is not allowed. It may negate insurance if anything went wrong.
Need to confirm with an electrician.
A plug on an appliance - which I suspect is what @RDM is referring to - is fine. Rewiring an existing wall socket is also fine, I’m pretty sure. If it’s not, I’m in trouble. Running new sockets is where it gets problematic.
 
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Somehow, children should be taught that going to school and learning new things everyday is a very good thing.
But most students (unlike me, actually) never accept this idea and prefer to avoid school and studying, and instead do other things with their friends who share the same views.

It is somehow in human nature to hate learning and learning more.
I don’t think I’d agree with that. Curiosity is innate. I think the problem is that it is beaten out of people at quite a young age. Parents can’t be bothered entertaining kids’ curiosity, so kids give up being curious. They learn to not ask questions, take things as they find them, stop trying to find things out.
 
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I don’t think I’d agree with that. Curiosity is innate. I think the problem is that it is beaten out of people at quite a young age. Parents can’t be bothered entertaining kids’ curiosity, so kids give up being curious. They learn to not ask questions, take things as they find them, stop trying to find things out.

Not necessarily true. Imagine, a family with two children, two girls who grow up in absolutely the same conditions. The age difference between the girls is seven years. The older girl loves, adores school, she always gets all the excellent marks, she is the top student in her class.
The other girl, seven years younger who grows next to her sister, actually hates going to school.
Why?


This is the system. Is it intentional, done purposefully by the politicans and the lobby or is it just a consequence of what the majority prefers?
In nature, the movement tends to be along the easiest path, with less resistance. So, people do prefer to have things in the easiest way.
Not many want to achieve something in the hard way.

We have Internet now. We can find almost any information and knowledge in the Internet.
So, people who have the willngness, can find the difference between what has value, and what is crap.
 
Soldato
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Yes I trust my sons school to feed him what an odd comment. I see the menus and the types of food they are preparing (the mountain of fruit and vegetables they get delivered every week is massive) Plus my son regularly comes home and talks about the food he has eaten that day. The days of chips, burgers and fried foods are over (except on fish and chip Friday). I’d be quite happy to continue paying for school food after the free school dinners end.

I can’t remember the last time I washed up. Why? Because I have a dish washer. Washing up isn’t exactly an essential life skill and even if it was I wouldn’t expect the school to teach this skill.

I agree with you that cooking and food tech could be a bigger part of the school day but without extending the day what else do you feel should be dropped?

So you expect a visit to a religious building with meaningful conversation to happen within an hour. Interesting.

I don’t resent paying for wrap around Childcare at all. FYI it costs £9.00 (minus tax and NI as I can pay for these costs via Childcare vouchers) for 3 hours at our school and that includes food and snacks and all of the materials for the activities he does within those hours. It’s brilliant, it’s staffed by brilliant people and I have no problem in paying for it because it allows both my wife and I to work AND more importantly my son really enjoys it.

When did I say we need 2 parents working? But well done making that assumption. However lots of families do need two full time working parents just to be able to afford to live.

Why would extending school hours (whilst removing home work) reduce parent/child engagement? We engage just fine with our son, by limiting ‘screen time’ and planning out regular activities. We also take an active interest in his schooling and make sure we attend as many of the school activities as we can. I don’t think we have missed one in 18 months to be honest. Whether that’s one or both of us attending. Again I appreciate this is made possible by having very good employers who are flexible.



Teachers are an important part of a child’s life. I’d welcome a rethink of what they do, how much they do and how much we pay them. We should be creating an environment where teaching is a aspirational career choice and it encourages the best people and candidates into these roles.

Is the negative due to having more hours to do more of the same? Like I’ve said in previous comments I would like to see a fundamental redesign of how we teach and interact with children at school. More of the same simply wouldn’t work as a lot of teaching (in its current format) is boring.

Fundamentally teachers only have a given amount of energy, so if you teach for longer you have to pace yourself, just like you would if you were doing a 1000m race instead of a 100m race. If I taught for one hour less every day it would have a positive impact on both my ability to teach effectively and the ability of students to stay fully engaged.

Also, the more time teachers have to plan lessons during the afternoon, the more time they have to enjoy life outside of work, meaning they go to work energised. Far too many teachers live off adrenaline (or cake) and that can make it very difficult to be relaxed during lesson time.

The problem we have is that academics seem to like lobbying for more and more to be added to the curriculum so they have less and less to do once students reach university. To me this is counter productive, as I think you are eluding to. IMO there needs to be less on the curriculum to enable it to be taught in a more flexible and fun way. If you look at the maths and science curriculum the only way they can get through it all is by rattling through every topic at break neck speed.

The other thing is that we seem to have a system where courses change so frequently that thousands and thousands of teachers are writing the same new resources all over the country. I'm in my 5th year of teaching and I have had to re-write resources for 5 different courses (3xGCSE/2xA-Level). Now there are facebook groups and the likes for people who share what they do but you get the usual people who share loads of work and then those that just leach, so you get less and less people willing to share. To me there should be some investment made for a centralised body to write standardised resource packs that teachers can then modify to suit their locality or cohort of students. That may come across as a bit lazy but what would you rather teachers be doing, writing resources and planning lessons or planning fun/engaging lessons that use modified resources? When you have to do both something has to give so that you can actually get the work done in the limited time you have. It makes it harder to be creative when you have a ridiculous workload and so fun lessons are harder to come by. Happy teachers are usually fun teachers, and I'm sure you all know the opposite side to that coin!

As a side note, a lot of people love the sound of joined learning where you teach one project that includes English/maths/science/engineering all in one go, but to make that work takes a serious amount of work and preparation. The only time I see this work is when it's a one off or it's organised by an outside company who've had weeks or months to plan it. It's a good concept but to get it to work requires quite a lot of people to get together so it can be planned to work from all angles and with the way teaching currently functions, this is almost impossible. To make it work you would need to do something similar to what I mentioned in the last paragraph where you teach less content and have resources planned by an outside agency.

Finally, part of the reason we are where we are is because so many governments try to revolutionise (put their stamp on) education and it never gets the chance to evolve. In my mind the only way we will get it to work is by having a long period of stability where governments leave it alone and allow experts (and I put successful school leaders above raw academics in this sense) to develop something new. Something that has been tried and tested before being rolled out. And when it's rolled out, it should be in a fashion that allows teachers to adapt effectively and efficiently.
 

RDM

RDM

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Lol, if the basic ability to wire a plug is a dying skill, may as well just demolish the schools now :D

How often do you need to rewire a plug? I know how to do it but it really isn’t something I need to do on even a semi regular basis.
 
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How often do you need to rewire a plug? I know how to do it but it really isn’t something I need to do on even a semi regular basis.

Had to re-wire one just last week, hoover was playing up turned out the connection at the plug was going, so instead of throwing away a perfectly functional hoover just chop the plug off and fit a new one.

Sure its not common, but it happens, and a variety of basic diy skills goes a long way towards the wholesome goals of reducing waste.
 

RDM

RDM

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Had to re-wire one just last week, hoover was playing up turned out the connection at the plug was going, so instead of throwing away a perfectly functional hoover just chop the plug off and fit a new one.

Sure its not common, but it happens, and a variety of basic diy skills goes a long way towards the wholesome goals of reducing waste.

Yeah but is it really the place of school to teach it? Or shall we just abrogate even more parental responsibility and just lump it on teachers?
 
Soldato
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The school day is long enough already - kids need time to be kids, not tired and stressed by sitting in a classroom all day. I taught EFL in Korea for a while and that is country where the kids start school at 7am and finish at 10pm five days a week - I wouldn't wish that on either of my two.

It's already been alluded to, but assuming that additional teachers were required for such changes, where do they come from? It's a highly trained / low paid profession, so I can't see longer hours attracting more to the profession. On top of that, when are the teachers supposed to plan lessons, mark homework, or do anything else related to their job? It's just not feasible.
 
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Anyone a teacher on here?

My school operates an 830 till 330 day and that's burning out teachers as it is. I can't imagine teachers working until 6pm everyday. I had to do it at the start of my career and never again!

Ultimately the system does need a good looking at. Investment needs to happen, and we need more teachers plan and simples.

I remember there was some talk about extending the school day but they didn't get far with it!
 
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Kids concentration levels aren't linked to how many hours school is. It's how interesting the lessons are. Sit anyone down at desks for hours on end and anyone is going to be bored. The curriculum needs to change along with how it's done.

My daughter goes to a dance school. The day starts at 8am and finishes at 8pm. An hour to themselves then bed (boarding). And they love it, because it's a day full of stuff they want to do.
 
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I too had a long school day from the age of 8, finishing after 5. But it wasn't solid lessons: we had 2 hours of sports in the afternoon before the final lessons.
 
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I too had a long school day from the age of 8, finishing after 5. But it wasn't solid lessons: we had 2 hours of sports in the afternoon before the final lessons.

Sadly things like sport and music have all but been dropped in favour of those subjects measured with SAT's. Its a constant drive to improve those small areas which are boring the kids to death
 
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With the likes of logan paul as role models i'm not sure thats 100% sensible.

Youtube can be great for learning but i generally tend to find you really need a decent background knowledge first so you can tell between the genuine advice and the nonsense.

No different from getting information from a book in a library, TV programme or Magazine. If you go looking for it you will find what you are looking for amoung all the noise.
 
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