Today's mass shooting in the US

[Felon]

It's interesting to see that Dicks sporting goods (a huge firearms retailer) have decided to stop selling assault style weapons; http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/28/news/companies/dicks-weapon-ban/index.html

Interesting to see the public and private sector, are doing more to try and solve the problem than the actual government, it speaks volumes around how NRA money has paralysed the government.

 

[MikeTheNative]

What made me laugh about that above article.

"The hunt business is an important part of the business, no doubt about it. And we know there will be some backlash,"

Apparently you need semi auto rifle with 30 round mag to hunt.

 

[Craterloads]

The Tampa Bay Times reported that the Republican-controlled committee voted along party lines to approve a “school marshal” program. The bill proposes putting 10 teachers trained to carry a gun in every school. The state's Senate Appropriations Committee passed a similar bill on Tuesday

http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/375992-florida-lawmakers-approve-bill-to-arm-teachers

Welp and news just coming in, not confirmed yet but.

Police in Georgia say officers are responding to reports of shots fired at a high school and a teacher who may have been barricaded in a classroom is in custody.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....cher-into-custody-after-shots-fired-at-school

 

[Rroff]

What made me laugh about that above article. Apparently you need semi auto rifle with 30 round mag to hunt.

For hunting of actual (dangerous) wild animals the requirements are completely different to what people "need" for leisure shooting or other sport type enjoyment of firearms.

Normally a (skilled) hunter would wait for the opportunity to put an animal down with 1-2 shots but there have been instances where for instance they've been charged by large game and needed a dozen shots before the animal went down.

Magazine size actually doesn't make much odds until its combined with other systems really - the shooter in Florida was firing 10-15 rounds between pauses and a shooter can for instance tape magazines so as to have very little downtime between bursts of fire. That said there is little reason for firearm enthusiasts, rather than those actively hunting, etc. to have a magazine at all and having to hand load individual rounds and in most cases something like a shotgun with 2-3 round capacity is more effective for home defence type use. (If you need more than a couple of rounds you are in a gunfight and the whole ball game changes).

 

[enkoda]

What made me laugh about that above article. Apparently you need semi auto rifle with 30 round mag to hunt.

It comes in very handy when hunting students in a school....

 

[bainbridge]

Well there was an armed guard at the school at the time of the shooting and there was still a massacre. I don't think more guns in schools will help, it will just cause more bloodshed.

When enough people are killed the profits of the American firearm industry will be overshadowed by the calls to finally reduce gun ownership.

 

[Flibster]

Why not just make anything other than a 16" or longer barrelled .22 rimfire require NFA registration?
Ok, may want to add a couple of other things in there, no detachable magazines, max of 5 round capacity just to prevent proper hunting rifles getting included.

Although, you may want to increase the $200 tax from it's current level though as that was set in 1934. Maybe $1500? Hell, if you just used inflation it's be $3700. So the tax raised could pay for the process. Add to that, the process takes months.

This chap has a good blog post on it.

Private owners wishing to purchase an NFA item must obtain approval from the ATF, obtain a signature from the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) who is the county sheriff or city or town chief of police (not necessarily permission), pass an extensive background check to include submitting a photograph and fingerprints, fully register the firearm, receive ATF written permission before moving the firearm across state lines, and pay a tax.[22] The request to transfer ownership of an NFA item is made on an ATF Form 4.

Doesn't stop people buying them, they're not banned. Just raises the cost of entry.

 

[Rroff]

Why not just make anything other than a 16" or longer barrelled .22 rimfire require NFA registration?

2nd amendment :s that said you don't even have to go that far to decrease firearms incidents like this to pretty close to zero - the shall permit/may permit setup like in the UK along with common sense approaches to age range and suitability to own along with storage and regulation of transfer, etc. would have a huge huge impact without stopping people from owning things like AR-15s.

You don't need to get rid of guns or even get rid of some of the more military influenced firearms to cut firearms incidents to a low to very low level.

 

[bjorkiii]

Come on Dowie reiterate that by the officer not following his orders etc etc etc your view is correct that he was in the wrong, you a fully qualified member of the internet know the proper way of declining the death toll.

 

[timmeh]

Is sounds like trump doesn’t even know that you can buy AR15s in stores. He thinks they’re bought on the black market...

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/968957403910823936?s=21

And he's also said that they'll "take guns first and go through due process second". That'll go down well.

I thought Obama was the one that was going to take away everyone's guns! haha

 

[JRS]

Welp and news just coming in, not confirmed yet but.



https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....cher-into-custody-after-shots-fired-at-school

Reuters link.

 

[Angilion]

What is an "assault style weapon"? How is it differentiated from a rifle that's not an "assault style weapon"? Does the appearance of a rifle really make any significant difference to the chance of spree killings taking place?

I'm not convinced that this sort of thing will solve the problem.

 

[dowie]

Come on Dowie reiterate that by the officer not following his orders etc etc etc your view is correct that he was in the wrong, you a fully qualified member of the internet know the proper way of declining the death toll.

I guess you're confident in the opposite view, also from the comfort of your armchair? My view is that I'll go with what the various police firearms experts/people who've studied active shooter situations etc.. have been saying re: it being better for the officer to go in.

 

[Rroff]

What is an "assault style weapon"? How is it differentiated from a rifle that's not an "assault style weapon"? Does the appearance of a rifle really make any significant difference to the chance of spree killings taking place?

I'm not convinced that this sort of thing will solve the problem.

It won't - but maybe it will make steps towards actual action that will. Most AR-15 type weapons owned in the US are not assault rifles or assault type weapons (obviously you knew that).

Is sounds like trump doesn’t even know that you can buy AR15s in stores. He thinks they’re bought on the black market...

Selling them in stores assuming other checks and balances were in place isn't the problem - currently you can buy one for instance from a Facebook group in a few hours and as long as you look older than 16 and aren't all talking about how you are going to go shoot a load of people the seller will simply hand it over probably along with a few spare loaded magazines all completely legal.

 

[Flibster]

2nd amendment :s

So, short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns, automatic weapons, suppressors, greater than .50cal weapons, explosives and any other firearms shouldn't be NFA restricted then?

You can still buy them, it's just you'd have to pay more and actually go through security checks and wait a while.

 

[Rroff]

So, short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns, automatic weapons, suppressors, greater than .50cal weapons, explosives and any other firearms shouldn't be NFA restricted then?

You can still buy them, it's just you'd have to pay more and actually go through security checks and wait a while.

We could argue about the actual realities of it but one of the key points of the 2nd amendment is ostensibly about not impinging on the ability to raise an effective militia - .22 rimfire would be hideously outclassed even with numbers behind it - I've even seen it deflect off car windscreens even with a little distance and the right/wrong angle (not saying it won't go through a car window because it will - but in actual combat ranges, etc. its generally lacking).

 

[Flibster]

We could argue about the actual realities of it but one of the key points of the 2nd amendment is ostensibly about not impinging on the ability to raise an effective militia - .22 rimfire would be hideously outclassed even with numbers behind it - I've even seen it deflect off car windscreens even with a little distance and the right/wrong angle (not saying it won't go through a car window because it will - but in actual combat ranges, etc. its generally lacking).

Actually, no. The militia part has been deemed by SCOTUS to be unrelated to the right to own firearms.

(1) The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.

(2) Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. Pp. 54–56.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZS.html
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

But again, it doesn't stop you owning pretty much anything up to and including .50cal semi auto rifles and even pre-1986 fully automatic weapons. There's even privately owned 20mm cannons and more. Hell, look at Dragon Man's collection.

 

[Rroff]

Actually, no. The militia part has been deemed by SCOTUS to be unrelated to the right to own firearms.

As per my older post - the clarification is the ability to form an effective militia and doesn't require active service as part of a militia, the use for self defence is a later understanding.

An interesting side effect of that IMO is that it would compel those who'd ostensibly be part of a militia if it was needed to maintain themselves physically, etc. in a condition suited to that or otherwise they are infringing on their own second amendment rights :s

 

[Trusty]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43235969

Surprised no one has posted this..

 

[ianh]

It seems people are more caught up in the hype about "removing guns" but doing little about finding the root cause as to "why" white male students keep doing this. If all the guns are gone then the root cause will still be there and people will find other ways to cause carnage, so shouldn't getting rid of the root cause also be a very high priority?