Tolerance vs Consideration.

BowdonUK said:
I wonder if its the promotion of individuality that as caused this?

Back in the day most people wanted to be part of a group while contributing towards it. These days the more choice people have the more intolerant to others they have become.

TV back in the day had 4 channels in my era. We were forced to watch programmes that we wouldnt choose to watch. There were a lot more British black comedies on tv, like Desmonds, The Real McCoy etc. We learned about different cultures and people. These days those comedies only appear on black focused Sky/Virgin channels, or you have to seek them out. The kids today don't know about other cultures and don't care. Their empathy for other peoples views, lifestyles and culture as dropped a lot.

The promotion of tolerance today while most people are at least subconciously intolerant. A mad world we live in.
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Too much choice is a bad thing.
 
Raymond Lin said:
This is why I like going to Fast East Asia, mostly Japan. People say the Japanese are kind, that they are, but the word they are looking for is that they are considerate. It’s in everything from very very little graffiti and trash because we all share the same space so would you make your home more dirty? To not speaking on public transport because it’s annoying to have the person next to you being loud, so you don’t be loud yourself or they would take all the rubbish with them when they leave a place like a football match or popcorn in the cinema. There is a proverb in Japanese that means you leave a place as you found it.
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And in China it's largely the opposite.
People are (broadly speaking) inconsiderate and selfish, which means that you need more tolerance - unless you want to end up with riots.

If people acted with greater consideration for others, there would be less tolerance needed.
 
Lopéz said:
And in China it's largely the opposite.
People are (broadly speaking) inconsiderate and selfish, which means that you need more tolerance - unless you want to end up with riots.

If people acted with greater consideration for others, there would be less tolerance needed.
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China being different is because during all the years of famine, the general population has developed this mentality of “get it now or it will be gone!” They would take all the loo rolls from a public toilet or if it’s a free sample they will swipe it all. Watch any Chinese Tourist group at the hotel breakfast buffet, the idea of "leave some for the next person" doesn't really cross their mind. The exception would be those who are more well off, and more educated.
 
Raymond Lin said:
This is why I like going to Fast East Asia, mostly Japan. People say the Japanese are kind, that they are, but the word they are looking for is that they are considerate. It’s in everything from very very little graffiti and trash because we all share the same space so would you make your home more dirty? To not speaking on public transport because it’s annoying to have the person next to you being loud, so you don’t be loud yourself or they would take all the rubbish with them when they leave a place like a football match or popcorn in the cinema. There is a proverb in Japanese that means you leave a place as you found it.
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There’s an American saying “The squeaky wheel gets the grease” which means if you make enough noise, you get better treatment. The Japanese version of this is “The nail that sticks out gets the hammer” which is self explanatory.

My experience of the Japanese (NEC European HQ employee for 5 years) are conformist and compliant, not considerate. They do what they’re told and behave as they believe they are expected to behave because there are consequences to not toeing the line in Japanese society.
 
Terminal_Boy said:
There’s an American saying “The squeaky wheel gets the grease” which means if you make enough noise, you get better treatment. The Japanese version of this is “The nail that sticks out gets the hammer” which is self explanatory.

My experience of the Japanese (NEC European HQ employee for 5 years) are conformist and compliant, not considerate. They do what they’re told and behave as they believe they are expected to behave because there are consequences to not toeing the line in Japanese society.
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It's a bit of both, but to give you an example.

When you move house in Japan, you get a moving company. In Japan there is actually a 3 step process if you pick the right package.

Step 1 - They send people around to pack everything for you with packing boxes.
Step 2 - Moving day, they would line the floor and walls. from the entrance of the building, corridor, walls and doorway to avoid any knocks or damage. They would then go round to all the neighbours and inform them that there may be some noise from the moving.
Step 3 - They would do the same again in the new building, inform all the neighbours and line all the walls and floors.
Step 4 - The people who packed the items comes and unpack them for you.

Step 1 and 4 is a higher tier package by Step 2 and 3, there is nothing illegal or non-conformist for not lining the doors and not informing the neighbours but they do it because it is considerate.
 
Raymond Lin said:
China being different is because during all the years of famine, the general population has developed this mentality of “get it now or it will be gone!” They would take all the loo rolls from a public toilet or if it’s a free sample they will swipe it all. Watch any Chinese Tourist group at the hotel breakfast buffet, the idea of "leave some for the next person" doesn't really cross their mind. The exception would be those who are more well off, and more educated.
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Yes, it's very much a "me first" society. It gets really, really tiresome after a while. Endless shoving, crowding, pushing in, barging.

After a few weeks of taking evasive action every 5 seconds to make sure I didn't clobber yet another person locked into their mobile I stopped bothering. Watching people getting body slammed a good few feet every day became a most satisfying hobby!
 
Raymond Lin said:
It's a bit of both, but to give you an example.

When you move house in Japan, you get a moving company. In Japan there is actually a 3 step process if you pick the right package.

Step 1 - They send people around to pack everything for you with packing boxes.
Step 2 - Moving day, they would line the floor and walls. from the entrance of the building, corridor, walls and doorway to avoid any knocks or damage. They would then go round to all the neighbours and inform them that there may be some noise from the moving.
Step 3 - They would do the same again in the new building, inform all the neighbours and line all the walls and floors.
Step 4 - The people who packed the items comes and unpack them for you.

Step 1 and 4 is a higher tier package by Step 2 and 3, there is nothing illegal or non-conformist for not lining the doors and not informing the neighbours but they do it because it is considerate.
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Some years ago I bought an old tamahagane kamisori from a Japanese seller. It arrived wrapped in small cloth which I believe is customary in Japanese culture when giving someone a knife. It also came with a small hand written note, neatly sealed in an envelope. I still have them (the cloth is decorated with Japanese symbolism and looks great).
 
Yadda said:
Some years ago I bought an old tamahagane kamisori from a Japanese seller. It arrived wrapped in small cloth which I believe is customary in Japanese culture when giving someone a knife. It also came with a small hand written note, neatly sealed in an envelope. I still have them (the cloth is decorated with Japanese symbolism and looks great).
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I like that. It shows care even for something that is no longer of use to the seller.
 
Dis86 said:
When I was a kid I was always taught that whilst tolerance was important, consideration for others always trumped this.
It's a rule that I've generally lived my life by however I seem to be more and more of a rarity in this respect.

I'll give a prime example, one that others in here have probably dealt with.
Walking by a cafe today I noticed a family with a few kids. The kids were running around the place, bumping against tables and chairs, getting in the way of servers and clearly annoying some of the other patrons. I know the cafe well, it's a lovely quiet place overlooking the sea. Nice atmosphere, good food, stunning views.

Now, when I was a kid my parents would have reigned me in pretty sharpish. A quiet word and a little explanation would have had me understanding it's not a playground and I was disrupting others. These parents did sweet F A. For the time that I was passing one never looked up from her phone and the other was troughing away on a toastie.

I think it's also incredibly evident in driving standards. Right of way just doesn't seem to exist. People will cut you up completely unnecessarily. Another example of mine from yesterday, was out for a great drive on country roads and a woman pulled out in front of me from a side road. She was in a t-roc, not exactly made for twisting, undulating roads and so didn't go above 35. There was nothing behind me. There are plenty of laybys and she could have pulled in to any of them. I do it all the time if I'm in the pickup and there's something quicker that is going to be held up behind me (Which tbh is pretty much anything!). It literally takes seconds. In fact, the gent in the Mondeo that was in front of me before that did just that. Gave me a wave and nod and I gave him a thumbs up. He then pulled out behind me and it cost him no time at all and I was able to push in and have fun.

Consideration. Ain't it great? Why then do so few people seem to possess it anymore? I feel this is one of the reasons, as stated in the declining attitude to law and order thread, that we're seeing the problems in society that we have. Instead of trying to have a better society, tolerance is requiring us to put up with the worst behaviours and attitudes that people exhibit.

Or am I just weird?
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Well, you're certainly weird but that's a topic for another day :D

I've changed my expectations in life. I used to get very angry at inconsiderate people, you know the types, the middle lane hoggers, the screaming kids in public, the trollies in the middle of an aisle, the queue jumpers, the park-across-two-bays, I can go on but I'm sure you know what I mean.

I've since found inner peace by simply expecting everyone around me to be a completely brainless zombie who is literally only alive because people like you and me prevent then from choking to death on a potato, drowning to death in a teacup or killing themselves to death with a spoon or whatever. This has several benefits, when someone exhibits their ability to use their brain, this turns what would've been a frustrating experience in to a positive one, it helps me tolerate the idiots around me, and when you expect people to be retards, you're rarely disappointed.

You should try it, for one day just expect everyone around you to have a single brain cell which is occupied with breathing activities and you'll see, tranquility will be found. Getting wound up by it is pointless, you're the only one who suffers in the end, the idiots are generally too stupid to even begin comprehending that leaving a trolley at a 90deg angle in a shopping aisle might inconvenience someone, as long as they're getting their goods, nothing else matters to them.
 
I'm going to pick up on the out of control kids point, its something that really annoys me and I'm somebody with 4 kids who are now grown up (well youngest is 15 but nearly there) and the amount of parents that just let them run riot is appalling.
From pubs and restaurants or even play areas, looking at their phones or chatting with there friends and only caring when one of them returns crying or broken.
Even in back gardens we suffer kits screaming and shouting, literally screaming as part of the "game" they are playing but the parents are all enjoying a glass of wine. I can only think the kids are playing in the way their parents are at home but fail to see it as acceptable, i'm not saying they should be silent or never raise voice but hours of shouting at each other screaming, then tears, then a moment of parental intervention and then back to the same is just so inconsiderate, especially at a time where we are all in our gardens more. I know parents have had to deal with schools and care issues but boo hoo, you have to care more the child you decided to have. Oh and i'd ban trampolines too if I could, nothing nicer than a child bobing above your fence every 3 seconds and looking at you. Is it ok to write swear words on a poster that you can only see when you look over? or perhaps topless pictures, I wonder if next door would knock and complain :)

Literally you would never know my kids were in the garden over and above talking and occasional laugher, nothing over and above the things the adults do. My kids now are all anti child and don't want to have any!

The moment I can I will move further away from other families :D
 
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