Tom Cruise - Has infact everyone else gone mad?

[Dolph]

Let me summarise all religions... Something magical happened to create us... We're special, you're not.

Did I miss anything?

Yes, not all religions have a creation myth, of those that do, many do not contradict with evolution, only the mechanism behind it (which is unproveable).

Remember, religion != christanity.

 

[Lysander]

I saw nothing wrong with the video either - total overreaction from everyone. He's just someone who has a very strong belief in something and is passionate and dedicated to it. Good for him.

 

[scorza]

So much ignorance it would almost be funny if it weren't so sad

Christianity is a religion, whose beliefs are well publicised and freely available to everyone. Anyone who wants to can join, anyone who wants to can leave, people are promoted up the religious hierarchy on merit alone.

Scientology on the other hand is a cult, you have to pay money to join, you will find it very difficult to leave, members are strongly encouraged to progress up the hierarchy, which will cost you even more money - to all intents and purposes, scientology is a pyramid selling scheme. No-one really knows what scientologists believe in, because this is only revealed as you progress up the hierarchy. Any attempt by former members to publish what they believe in is quashed with copyright laws, yes, copyright laws. The scientologists seek to actively persecute critics, see for example the case of Keith Henson.

 

[Dolph]

So much ignorance it would almost be funny if it weren't so sad

Christianity is a religion, whose beliefs are well publicised and freely available to everyone. Anyone who wants to can join, anyone who wants to can leave, people are promoted up the religious hierarchy on merit alone.

Unfortunately religious intolerance is alive and well, far more from those who disbelieve than anyone else. We never see christians, jews or muslims on here belittling and insulting people, yet we frequently do with some of the atheists.

The funny thing is, if you ask these people why they dislike religion, the usual answer will be "it's intolerant" or something along those lines.

 

[Heliospherez]

Yes, and don't even go into how they tried to censor the search engines because they didn't like the results people were seeing.

 

[Lysander]

So much ignorance it would almost be funny if it weren't so sad

Christianity is a religion, whose beliefs are well publicised and freely available to everyone. Anyone who wants to can join, anyone who wants to can leave, people are promoted up the religious hierarchy on merit alone.

Scientology on the other hand is a cult, you have to pay money to join, you will find it very difficult to leave, members are strongly encouraged to progress up the hierarchy, which will cost you even more money - to all intents and purposes, scientology is a pyramid selling scheme. No-one really knows what scientologists believe in, because this is only revealed as you progress up the hierarchy. Any attempt by former members to publish what they believe in is quashed with copyright laws, yes, copyright laws. The scientologists seek to actively persecute critics, see for example the case of Keith Henson.

So cults aren't allowed to have belief systems and followers like religions? It's not like in religion there isn't a heirachy.

This thing about "no-one knows what Scientologists believe in" is claptrap. It's not like the basis of the religion is shrouded in secrecy. Pick up Dianetics, I'm sure you'll find out more. Every religion has its source book, and they're all easy to get hold of if you want to do the research.

 

[Dolph]

So cults aren't allowed to have belief systems and followers like religions? It's not like in religion there isn't a heirachy.

They are, but the followers of a cult should not be compared with followers of normal religions

This thing about "no-one knows what Scientologists believe in" is claptrap. It's not like the basis of the religion is shrouded in secrecy. Pick up Dianetics, I'm sure you'll find out more. Every religion has its source book, and they're all easy to get hold of if you want to do the research.

Those are the very basics, but for the higher knowledge, you have to have given a certian amount to the church. You have to buy the knowledge from the church, that's the only way to get it.

 

[Heliospherez]

Another thing I find starnge is how much they detest and want psychiatry and psychotherapy banned etc (and denounce it as rubbish, and for creating Hitler, Stalin and all the World Wars)

Yet they use many psychotherapy techniques to brainwash people (and have even stated they study it and learn how to use it to manipulate and promote their doctrine)

 

[Stan_Lite]

The simple fact that he constantly asserts his 'team' is better than the rest 'and you can be part of the group' or be on the inside, says to me he is in a state of disordered narcissism and delusional grandeur.

Now, you may say he just comes across as slightly arrogant, but here are some pointers for a psycho analysis of Narcissistic personality disorder :

1.) Overreacts to criticism, becoming angry or humiliated
2.) Uses others to reach goals
3.) Exaggerates own importance
4.) Entertains unrealistic fantasies about achievements, power, beauty, intelligence or romance
5.) Has unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment
6.) Seeks constant attention and positive reinforcement from others
7.) Is easily jealous
8.) Has a sense of entitlement
9.) Is interpersonally exploitative
10.) Lacks empathy
11.) Displays arrogant behavior
12.) Displays haughty behavior

His rants are also annoying as they imply everyone is stupid or uneducated, which is very far from the truth. In fact, some of his scientology promotional videos and speeches are enough to put people off cults for life (which is a great thing)

If he spent as much time and money really helping the less well off people in the world, instead of feeding it into this money sucking new age religion, he would find the happinness he seems to crave (but will never get) from this alien cult.

For me personally, I think the guy is just getting further up his own backside and creating a delusional world where he imagines everyone has 'issues' and needs the space god to come down and get rid of their clingons for them. He is delusional, he has meglomania and he is a control freak who will also go on to develop some sort of God like complex and evntually burn out and go into a recluse state or realise the Scientology 'team' can't fulfill his needs anymore and it's time to find a new fad to latch his over inflated and unstable ego onto..... The sooner the better I say - but i don't really care about the guy or what happens to him, I just care that his rants actually get weak minded individuals and easily led people who need a new fix or need to 'be loved' by something to join the sect.

Sounds like an analysis of a great many people at the top of their profession tbh, whether it be acting, music, sports or any other profession which deifies it's leading protagonists.
His arrogance, superiority etc, I believe has very little to do with his religion and more to do with his status in his chosen profession.

Also, as stated earlier, most religions I have encountered engender some form of arrogance and/or superiority complex in their followers - most religions are utterly convinced that their beliefs are the truth and any other belief is either blasphemous, heretical or delusional.

Sounds like any superstar with religious beliefs to me.

 

[Lysander]

They are, but the followers of a cult should not be compared with followers of normal religions

Why not? I'm not trying to be difficult, just interested to know.

Those are the very basics, but for the higher knowledge, you have to have given a certian amount to the church. You have to buy the knowledge from the church, that's the only way to get it.

It's not like the Church of England hasn't ever exploited its followers to get money

 

[Heliospherez]

In Catholocism giving money isn't a requirement to progress, and scientolgy is'nt really interested in 3rd world countries like Africa, where people have little wealth. In fact, anywhere they have to spend money, they seem to want little to do with - as they can't gain anything usefull. Rather like a parasite.

All those old ladies who have found god and true happiness with their rosary beads didn't necessarily have to give any money away to go up to the Spirit in the Sky.

 

[Dolph]

Why not? I'm not trying to be difficult, just interested to know.

Well, for instance, see my earlier point about the difference between knowing where the religious text comes from, and not knowing (although many people assume).

There are also many differences in behaviour (such as most cults tend to be shrouded in secrecy), how they treat people and so on.

The only christian groups that come close are the fundamentalist ones (such as westboro baptist church) and they should be treated the same.

It's not like the Church of England hasn't ever exploited its followers to get money

But they never charged for simple religious knowledge. If you go back several hundred years, then there were cases of people leaving their lands to the church due to fear of going to hell, but in recent times, there has been very little exploitation (unless you're going to claim that the collection in church is exploitation), which is very very different from scientology, or most other cults.

 

[MHayes]

I agree, as much as Scientology is a load of rubbish imo, he has a right to his opinion and he wasn't being that crazy about it, if he was talking about Christianity or Islam no one would dare bash him. But because it is Scientology it is ok.

Aliens are more likely than fitting all the animals in the world on a big boat.

Anyway I am a Jedi So I know what it is like to be persecuted.

 

[Stan_Lite]

Its not a requirement to gain happiness though.

All those old ladies who have found god and true happiness with their rosay bead didn't necessarily have to give any money.

The same could apply to any "religion" though. I could take the basic, freely available tenets of any belief system and follow them for my own satisfaction without having to subscribe to the full package.

 

[Dolph]

Also, as stated earlier, most religions I have encountered engender some form of arrogance and/or superiority complex in their followers - most religions are utterly convinced that their beliefs are the truth and any other belief is either blasphemous, heretical or delusional.

As do many of those who have found 'the truth' through atheism. A quick read of Richard Dawkins work will demonstrate all the above, directed at those who do not share his beliefs.

Atheism may not be a religion, but that doesn't stop it's followers behaving in that way

 

[Stan_Lite]

As do many of those who have found 'the truth' through atheism. A quick read of Richard Dawkins work will demonstrate all the above, directed at those who do not share his beliefs.

Atheism may not be a religion, but that doesn't stop it's followers behaving in that way

I agree entirely. I consider atheism as a form of religion and as such, would include it in my statement

 

[Dolph]

I agree entirely. I consider atheism as a form of religion and as such, would include it in my statement

We can see it already in this thread

 

[wannabedamned]

I'm Very Agnostic here.

 

[NeilF]

The simple fact that he constantly asserts his 'team' is better than the rest 'and you can be part of the group' or be on the inside, says to me he is in a state of disordered narcissism and delusional grandeur.

Now, you may say he just comes across as slightly arrogant, but his statements make specific people feel as though they are inferior and he is using low level psychotherepy methods to persuad the weak minded people that they need to come join him (becuase their lives are negative - and he is the positive).....
Here are some pointers for a psycho analysis of Narcissistic personality disorder which I think is one of the traits he displays in his own headspace :

1.) Overreacts to criticism, becoming angry or humiliated
2.) Uses others to reach goals
3.) Exaggerates own importance
4.) Entertains unrealistic fantasies about achievements, power, beauty, intelligence or romance
5.) Has unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment
6.) Seeks constant attention and positive reinforcement from others
7.) Is easily jealous
8.) Has a sense of entitlement
9.) Is interpersonally exploitative
10.) Lacks empathy
11.) Displays arrogant behavior
12.) Displays haughty behavior

His rants are also annoying as they imply everyone is stupid or uneducated, which is very far from the truth. In fact, some of his scientology promotional videos and speeches are enough to put people off cults for life (which is a great thing)

If he spent as much time and money really helping the less well off people in the world, instead of feeding it into this money sucking new age religion, he would find the happinness he seems to crave (but will never get) from this alien cult.

For me personally, I think the guy is just getting further up his own backside and creating a delusional world where he imagines everyone has 'issues' and needs the space god to come down and get rid of their clingons. He is delusional, he has meglomania and he is a control freak who will also go on to develop some sort of God like complex and evntually burn out and go into a recluse state or realise the Scientology 'team' can't fulfill his needs anymore and it's time to find a new fad to latch his over inflated and unstable ego onto..... The sooner the better I say - but i don't really care about the guy or what happens to him, I just care that his rants actually get weak minded individuals and easily led people who need a new fix or need to 'be loved' by something to join the sect.

You make a perfect example of my argument!

Let's forget what people think or guess... Watch the guy at the film premieres where he goes out of his way to be nice to the crowds waiting. What does this say about his personality & outlook?

Now also put into the 'cooking pot' a friend's cousin was one of the major stars in MI3, so spent a lot of time with Tom Cruise, this individual has previously dished the dirt on previous people they've worked with quite frankly and honestly. With Cruise he had nothing but good things to say of him - He was professional and went out of his way to help people and be nice to people...

Now, all I can see is that seems to discount many of the items on your list.


Next we come to your use of 'rant'. Interesting that this is the current media buzz word for Tom Cruise - Seems you've bought into it!

If you look at the definition of this word:-
to speak or declaim extravagantly or violently; talk in a wild or vehement way;

In the recent two videos I've seen he has been nothing more than passionate about the topic....



Thanks for helping with my argument

 

[Kreeeee]

Dolph, I'm open about to the ideas of most religions but I do not follow any religion. I think people who are heavily into any religion or indeed atheism are as bad as each other.