Toyota and Lexus - Same company different attitude to customers

Hussman

Hussman

Hussman

Associate
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1 Nov 2003
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Location
Maidstone, Kent
For over 25 years now I have purchased either Toyota or Lexus vehicles. I like the reliability and I am too old for hooning around, I need something for light off-road use, and with significant cargo space, so their RAV4's and RX's meet my requirements.

My financial position means I cannot afford a brand new Lexus but, due to the excellent reliability, I have purchased (over the years) 4 second hand Lexus's (Lexi??) all of which have served me well.

Last year, I was in a position to purchase a new vehicle. I was tempted by a newer second hand Lexus RX, but realised I could purchase a new Toyota. I bought a RAV4.

Recently, I received an email from my local Toyota dealer inviting me to purchase "Protection Plates". After googling this I learnt that car thieves are now targeting RAV4s and some Lexus models, then by-passing their security via connecting a box of tricks to the cars CANBUS system, accessed via the front headlight. There are videos on line showing how easy this is and cars being driven away in around 2 minutes with the thieves gaining entry and taking the car electronically. It is very scary how quick and easy this seems to be!

Anyway, these "Protection Plates" are designed to prevent the thieves gaining easy access to the connection needed to connect to the CANBUS.

The Toyota dealer wanted to charge me £70 to fit these. Apparently Toyota are happy to provide the parts FOC, but the labour comes down to the customer. This involves removing the front bumper and headlights so I understand.

What I find disappointing is that owners of the Lexus models with are also affected by this security flaw are being contacted by Lexus and offered the "Protection Plates" supplied and fitted FOC.

When you consider that Toyota and Lexus are the same company this seems unfair and has left a rather unpleasant taste.

I contacted Toyota UK and asked for an explanation. I was told that "Both brands, Toyota and Lexus, have made separate commercial decisions..."

Now, I may understand this if the cars in question were the cheaper end of Toyota's range. After all they are looking to make a profit. But I believe the RAV4 is at their higher end, when optional extras are added it is easily possible to have a RAV4 cost equivalent, or even more, than a similar Lexus.

I am getting towards retirement age, and my plan was to use part of my retirement package to buy a new Land Cruiser. I'm now feeling this is something I'm probably not going to do, as it appears to me that Toyota don't value their customers and only see them as ways to get additional income.

Of course, I could still buy Lexus but, as they are owned by Toyota, this is something I am also now unsure about.

Is it me, or is this decision by Toyota somewhat foolish and short-sighted? After all, for the sake of £70 (the actual labour cost to Toyota would be significantly less), they have now alienated and disappointed me, and possibly other customers, and put in jeopardy my on-going brand loyalty and future purchases.

Be interested to hear the wisdom of the OCUK motors community on this.
 
i think the underlying point here is if this security loophole is as easy to use as it seems , why hasn't toyota/lexus closed it at there own cost?.
bad practise in my view, if you are selling something that can easily be stolen, you should do your level best to correct it, if you do not , ultimatley then more vehicles get stolen and premiums go up/become uninsurable, hence less vehicles sold....
 
GC123 sums up my point of view on this well. There is a clear flaw here. One which apparently can be fixed for less than £70 but Toyota seem unwilling to do this. I wonder how many Toyota / Lexus owners will look at others options for their next purchase. I know I will be.
 
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Hussman said:
I wonder how many Toyota / Lexus owners will look at others options for their next purchase. I know I will be.
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Honest answer? Very few I'd imagine. You have stated yourself that you have over 25 years of good service and products from the brands, to go elsewhere because of the cost of an optional upgrade to the security of your car would be cutting off your nose to spite your face. Would Lexus/Toyota have done better in your eyes by not offering these protection plates at all?

As for a known flaw... unfortunately modern cars combined with modern media accessibility has put the ability to exploit security loopholes in the hands of any chancer who can operate a smartphone.

Finally with regards to the brands being under the same banner... this is the car industry all over. Would you expect the same service from Bentley as you would Seat? Both part of the VAG group afterall.
 
Hussman said:
Fair comment Lordobs.

Just leaves a bad taste. Perhaps it's just me, and I'm expecting too much?
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I think it's absolutely fair to feel put out, I'd probably be the same to be honest. It sounds like the sort of thing that mentioning in passing with the branch / service manager in a 'I'm only joking but really I'm a bit miffed' sort of way would see a small gesture of good will of some sort. Especially if you drop in a "Maybe I should have bought a Lexus" or even better "Maybe next time I'll buy a Lexus" :p

My dad drives an Avensis which is on the Toyota service plan (extending the warranty while he continues to do so) and despite his car being a 2016 model he'll take it back for even the tiniest of problems and they always greet him well and resolve it as soon as they can, despite him being quite a high maintenance customer!

They've got a customer for life in him now, he wouldn't even consider another brand.
 
A lot of this will be down to the individual dealer franchise, which unfortunately a certain brand is buying out all the other franchise and the quality of service is dropping as there's less choice available. With the service schedule and "fixed price servicing" some dealers will charge for additional work even though it's required on the schedule, others include it. When they had the engine recall on our cars it was basically a free service due to how much had to be stripped off, some dealers offered to replace the clutch at the cost of the part, others charged for spark plug labour even though the engine was already out.

As a goodwill the dealer should be offering to fit the part when the car is in for a service and already occupying a bay, if it only takes 2 minutes to steal a car with this method it shouldn't take that long to fit the part while it's already on the ramp, especially when Toyota have given them the part for free.
 
A charge of £70 doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Lexus is a premium brand so generally they're making more money out of people so they can afford to do small things like this for free, and it's important to keep people buying expensive cars. Toyota they have to be more aware of the profit margin, and they couldn't have easily foreseen this security issue.
 
Hussman said:
Fair comment Lordobs.

Just leaves a bad taste. Perhaps it's just me, and I'm expecting too much?
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So you bought the car new last year?
£70 isn't bad considering the going rate for labour these days is in the hundreds of £ per hour it seems but on the other hand it's a bit of a security flaw IMO that Toyota should be fixing on all cars FOC.

Personally I'd be a pita about it and argue the case that the car has a security flaw that should be rectified under warranty. You shouldn't have to pay a fee to fix something that is of Toyota's making, bad design or whatever, in the warranty period. Can also state if you had known about risk the car could be more easily stolen you simply wouldn't have bought the car. Say they can have the car back instead and you want a refund if willing to take that risk they say "Okay" and you have sort out another car :D
 
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DarrenM343 said:
So you bought the car new last year?
£70 isn't bad considering the going rate for labour these days is in the hundreds of £ per hour it seems but on the other hand it's a bit of a security flaw IMO that Toyota should be fixing on all cars FOC.

Personally I'd be a pita about it and argue the case that the car has a security flaw that should be rectified under warranty. You shouldn't have to pay a fee to fix something that is of Toyota's making, bad design or whatever, in the warranty period. Can also state if you had known about risk the car could be more easily stolen you simply wouldn't have bought the car. Say they can have the car back instead and you want a refund if willing to take that risk they say "Okay" and you have sort out another car :D
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This.

Surely its a recall for a security patch!!!
 
I'd personally move on, it's £70... Not worth wasting the time and negative energy thinking about it any further or seeking validation.

Either that, go back to Toyota UK and say you were not happy with their explanation, and ask them directly to resolve the situation for you to retain your future business (i.e. some kind of complaints process)
 
gc123 said:
i think the underlying point here is if this security loophole is as easy to use as it seems , why hasn't toyota/lexus closed it at there own cost?.
bad practise in my view, if you are selling something that can easily be stolen, you should do your level best to correct it, if you do not , ultimatley then more vehicles get stolen and premiums go up/become uninsurable, hence less vehicles sol
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I was looking at a RAV 4 this has sort of put me off
 
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I've never had and issues with Toyota, in fact they fixed some things for me out of warranty. The car was 6 years old at that point. They had to ask Toyota HQ but they said to just go ahead.

Lexus ARE better, in fact they are one of the best. Annoyingly they turn away work on Toyotas though :/

A complete contrast to experiences with Audi years ago. Everything was a battle even I was entitled to it.
 
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What I’m not keen on is that Toyota/Lexus have failed to apply sufficient security to their vehicles.

Not the customers fault.
What other manufacturers do/how they handle it is irrelevant.


Lexus are doing the right thing and rectifying their mistake free of charge.

Toyota are not.



What Fox says is true - you do expect better customer service on a premium brand, but only in that you expect them to go above and beyond (to a degree).

In this situation, we’re talking about a design flaw, the consequence of which is that plebs are able to steal the customer’s vehicle more easily.


I think OP is very fair to expect them to sort it free of charge.


Shouldn’t be up to the customer to pay out as a result of someone/a team not doing their job properly (IMO)
 
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It's a difficult one, hence why I asked for the advice on here. Some days I thought, "No problem, it is what it is," other days I was, "Stuff this- your fault Toyota, do the right thing and provide and fit the parts FOC."

£70 isn't the end of the world. It's just that, to me, this is a fault that should be covered FOC.

You don't (well, I didn't) expect such issues on a £40K plus vehicle, and then to see that I'm expected to pay for this to be rectified myself is annoying.

Some very sound comments on here. Thanks for all who took the time to contribute.

As Lordrobs stated, "You have stated yourself that you have over 25 years of good service and products from the brands, to go elsewhere because of the cost of an optional upgrade to the security of your car would be cutting off your nose to spite your face." Perhaps I am?

This makes sense to me too,

"I'd personally move on, it's £70... Not worth wasting the time and negative energy thinking about it any further or seeking validation." Thanks, iGiDK.

I think I'll buy Lexus next time. :)
 
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