Train drivers = greed

ExRayTed said:
Do you really think a pilot of a 747 actually flies the thing? No,you're being a little naive I'm afraid.[Edit] Oh and a 747 pilot gets paid circa 70k-80k IIRC [edit]
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Obviously it won't need a pilot, its on invisible little rails in the sky...... :rolleyes:

Naive?, I think they get paid such sums for a good reason especially the bit the pilot was doing..... ;)
MIRACLE OF FLIGHT BA038
By Beth Neil 18/01/2008


Pilot Eric Moody knows all about mid-air nightmares...all four engines on his 747 once failed at 37,000ft.

The ex-BA captain was flying from to Australia 28 years ago when the he was struck by an electrical storm above the Java Sea.

One by one his engines stopped and the airliner plummeted 23,000ft.

Eric, 66, recalled: "The only moment of fear I had was when it looked like we were going to have to land on the sea. My life didn't flash before my eyes.

"Me, the co-pilot and engineer went into our well-rehearsed drill.

"I told passengers: 'We've a small problem. All engines have stopped. We're doing our damnedest to get them started'. They didn't panic.

"I was flying the plane by hand. Engine four started and we made an emergency landing at Jakarta.

"I was balanced on my right buttock peering through the smaller windscreen with my feet on the rudders calling out the power settings to the engineer while my co-pilot shouted out the height. It was a real team effort. I knew we'd done a bloody good job."

Eric, left, of Camberley, Surrey, added: "I hope the pilot yesterday takes a good 10-day break before flying again.

You need that."
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topsto...oeing-747-stalled-at-37-000ft-89520-20289276/
Source, Daily Mirror - Probably a load of BS. :p


ExRayTed said:
A pilot is also expected to pay for a large amount of his own training,where-as we aren't.

But then a pilots salary,even for easyjet,starts out at 70k.This rises to 100k for larger companies.
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Truck drivers are expected to pay for their training, do we get extra for it? Nope.

ExRayTed said:
Also,just to clear up a point.A driver on Southern gets £34k basic incl London Weighting for a 35 hour week.With rostered overtime (13 sundays a year) this rises to just under £37k.
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Mikey said:
They're complaining about a 4.5% pay rise.

So we're priced off the roads and priced off the trains due to greedy tossers. Nice...
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Seems to me the OP got it pretty much spot on! dress it up all you want ExRayTed, you guys have got it easy, but seem not to appreciate that. - And the Rail Unions seem hell bent on killing the Golden Goose with "your" wage demand! (that's the fare paying public btw)

I average double those basic hours for a lot less than £34k and my last pay rise was 2% !
 
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Face it ExRayTed, people are jealous. If I felt I was up to that level of concentration for that time span, that amount of route knowledge etc. I'd have gone for it. But I wouldn't trust myself. And that's just for when things go right.

Massive amount of responsibility. I'm not belittling other careers, but slagging off another vocation's wage levels because theirs isn't what they want is a bit petty IMO.
 
R124/LA420 said:
Obviously it won't need a pilot, its on invisible little rails in the sky...... :rolleyes:

Naive?, I think they get paid such sums for a good reason especially the bit the pilot was doing..... ;)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topsto...oeing-747-stalled-at-37-000ft-89520-20289276/
Source, Daily Mirror - Probably a load of BS. :p




Truck drivers are expected to pay for their training, do we get extra for it? Nope.





Seems to me the OP got it pretty much spot on! dress it up all you want ExRayTed, you guys have got it easy, but seem not to appreciate that. - And the Rail Unions seem hell bent on killing the Golden Goose with "your" wage demand! (that's the fare paying public btw)

I average double those basic hours for a lot less than £34k and my last pay rise was 2% !
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You've spectacularly missed the point.The pilot you quoted used his training to save lives.The event described is a risk that rarely happens.He was trained for it.He was paid for it too.Paid to be able to react in the way he did.He truly earnt his money that day.Should he be paid less? Absolutely not.Have I said anywhere that a pilot doesn't earn his wage? No.Flying a plane is a task that I imagine requires a great deal of expertise and concentration.

My point is that a pilot isn't only paid to fly.The plane will have,I imagine,automated systems to take responsibility for some of the more mundane tasks..some form of autopilot? (not sure if it's called that..relying on what I've seen on the telly.) He is paid to reflect the level of responsibilty he is shouldering.So am I.

Do I think you deserve,as a truck driver,to get paid more? Yes.Your job is suffering from a large amount of foreign competition which can't help.But does that mean that I deserve to be paid less?

And 'my' pay rise? Please..If you'd bothered to actually read every post I've made in this thread you'd have seen I'm not demanding any pay rise.The company in question is Southwest trains.And do you think that the dispute is simply about money? Naive.A suprise given your age.

I don't work for them.Get you facts straight next time before bulldozing into the latter part of a thread.I don't pretend to understand the pressures of driving a lorry..don't presume to tell me I'm 'dressing it up' about a job you clearly have no idea about.
 
ExRayTed said:
You've spectacularly missed the point.
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Nothing unusual there tbh.

ExRayTed said:
The pilot you quoted used his training to save lives.The event described is a risk that rarely happens.He was trained for it.He was paid for it too.Paid to be able to react in the way he did.He truly earnt his money that day.Should he be paid less? Absolutely not.Have I said anywhere that a pilot doesn't earn his wage? No.Flying a plane is a task that I imagine requires a great deal of expertise and concentration.

My point is that a pilot isn't only paid to fly.The plane will have,I imagine,automated systems to take responsibility for some of the more mundane tasks..some form of autopilot? (not sure if it's called that..relying on what I've seen on the telly.) He is paid to reflect the level of responsibilty he is shouldering.So am I.

Do I think you deserve,as a truck driver,to get paid more? Yes.Your job is suffering from a large amount of foreign competition which can't help.But does that mean that I deserve to be paid less?
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Fair enough, I think I mis-read what you were referring to again, nowt unusual. :o

ExRayTed said:
And 'my' pay rise? Please..If you'd bothered to actually read every post I've made in this thread you'd have seen I'm not demanding any pay rise.The company in question is Southwest trains.And do you think that the dispute is simply about money? Naive.A suprise given your age.

I don't work for them.Get you facts straight next time before bulldozing into the latter part of a thread.I don't pretend to understand the pressures of driving a lorry..don't presume to tell me I'm 'dressing it up' about a job you clearly have no idea about.
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No, not your pay rise at all, not what I was driving at, more a dig at the Rail Unions & their disputes (which is why I put "your" as I did.) this has been mis interpreted, and on re-reading what I posted, I'm not surprised. :o

I think I'll wave the white flag & goto bed. ;)

My Apologies. (if I'm not already on your ignore list by now!)
 
So the rest of us have to put up with a rise of 1.8% compared to the average rise of 15% for services and purchases. Fair play to them, they're in a position where they can get away with it so why not. It's about time someone got to act like our MP's and decide their own rise.
 
R124/LA420 said:
Nothing unusual there tbh.



Fair enough, I think I mis-read what you were referring to again, nowt unusual. :o



No, not your pay rise at all, not what I was driving at, more a dig at the Rail Unions & their disputes (which is why I put "your" as I did.) this has been mis interpreted, and on re-reading what I posted, I'm not surprised. :o

I think I'll wave the white flag & goto bed. ;)

My Apologies. (if I'm not already on your ignore list by now!)
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My apologies too for being curt and abrupt..hitting the 'post' button at silly o'clock is never a good idea :D
 
allllec said:
One less person here while I'm still only 17 :p



One thing I've noticed working with lots of poles.

Sure they may work hard but:

a) NO understanding of health and safety (They will just leave dollys of stock in front of fire exits)
b) VERY LOW standards (Yesterday one was telling me that a frozen cheesecake that had been out in the warm over night was fine to go back on the shelf)

Maybe it's just the ones I work with :o
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OH God!!!! Not the cheesecake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek::eek::eek:
 
my father is one. seems a lot of you have a complete misunderstanding of what is involved in the job. also, im not going to disclose how much, but hes not on anything near that amount. dont tar everyone with the same brush.

i do agree they have a cheek to be refusing that sort of money though when others in the country are on significantly less...
 
they are advertised. Just have to look on railway sites especially ews, FGW etc.
Starting pay is around 16k. It's around an 8month course to begin with. You will then start on a small branch line for 12months or so. Then gradually work your way up to main line. It's not until you are on long distance main line that you see 40k. That's pretty much as much as you can get for passenger.

You have to pass a interview, drugs and alcohol, medical and then a coordination test. A lot of people fail the coordination test.

Oh and it's no where near push a button and go

Interesting thanks :)
 
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I'm so glad that ExRayTed has been posting in this thread. Because a lot of people in here don't have a clue as to how demanding driving a train is. Afaik, a driver has to learn the entire route they are driving, every inch of it, the location of every signal and have extremely high reaction times. They are responsible from driving trains anywhere from 50-100 tons for 1-2 fully loaded coach trains. All the way up to three to four THOUSAND tons depending on what train they are driving. They can be responsible for well over 1000 lives on a full train. Can you imagine the responsibilty involved when your driving a train with 26 fully loaded tanks (around 90 tons each i think) of explosive/flammable fuel. Like ExRayTed, they can be charged with manslaughter if someone dies on their train. Imagine, your driving a train down a main line at 120+ miles an hour. You see a person jump onto the tracks over a mile away wanting to commit suicide. What can the driver do, apply the brakes and sit there for ages watching this guy get closer, knowing full well that this person is about to die.

I don't claim to know everything because i'm not a train driver. It's always been one of my dreams since i was a kid to drive a train, but i'll never be allowed to because i suffer from Epilepsy. So even if i don't have a seizure for 20-30 years i'm still not allowed, thats how strict the health regulations are. Feel free to correct me on anything thats wrong ExRayTed. But I do have a close friend who is one. He says that the training he undertook and the difficulty of the job is extremely tough and challenging, far more so than he ever thought possible. He has to retake his driving test every 2 years.

Considering the responsibility involved being a train driver, i'd say the wage is definately justified. So those claiming that they just sit on their *** pushing buttons and reading newspapers, do some research before running your mouth about something you clearly don't have a clue about.
 
Voltar said:
Would you want to be a train driver? A bus driver or a tube driver?
There has to be an upside for these people; especially in London. Fancy being gobbed at on a routine drive through London at night? Fancy death threats? Being started on? Just a small plastic cage separating you from being kicked in by some idiot over the price of a bus fare? Over you doing your job?

Didn't think so. Even if our public transport is a sham.
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So why aren't Police Officers paid more then these brave transport people who risk their lives on a daily basis, just to bring you to your destination late?

I earn just below £40k and I do a damned more difficult/skilled job then train drivers.
 
Simple market economics dictates that what people are paid reflects the utility/welfare derived by society/business from their provision of a service. Now of course there are distortions and imperfections in this market, but generlly it is a more suitable mechanism than paying according to peoples perceived value of a job.
 
platypus said:
So why aren't Police Officers paid more then these brave transport people who risk their lives on a daily basis, just to bring you to your destination late?

I earn just below £40k and I do a damned more difficult/skilled job then train drivers.
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And again..why should I get paid less because you get less than me?

Let me ask you directly.Do you think I earn my money or not? Do you think I am justified collecting my salary?

Have you ever been a train driver? I'm assuming so given you saying your job is 'damned more difficult'.You having a difficult job is not under debate here.Neither is your salary.Mine is.Or rather am I justified in receiving that amount?

You have to admit that to say with any degree of accuracy whether one job is more difficult than another,you'd have to have done both jobs?
 
Helium_Junkie said:
Don't panic, in a few months the polish will be trained up to drive trains at a fraction of the cost, with no complaints :p
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And then crash trains because of there lack of English. Happened back last year with two engineering trains luckily they where only going walking pace. Network rails has now introduced English tests. However I'm not sure they're that difficult. Not sure if the TOCs do English tests though.
 
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