Triple-lock on pensions will stay. Pensions will increase when earnings have decreased

[HACO]

If state pensions are in such a perilous position it seems prudent to me to make alternative arrangements, such as buying a second house to generate an income in retirement. Furthermore, with the BoE still murmuring about having the option of negative interest rates, anyone in their last twenty years before retirement with some savings might be more inclined to buy property than watch their savings dwindle.

That's part of the problems. Boomers were being taxed so low, and the state pension was low. So they used that money (that they should have otherwise paid in taxes to build up the state pension trust fund for their retirements) to buy second, third, and forth properties, almost always leveraged, to fund their retirements. Now the government is planning to make sure they won't be required to sell these properties to pay for their social care, instead they'll introduce taxes on the 40+ people, as Tories have announced.

This country's commitment to benefiting the landowner class is nothing short of a fundamentalist religion. Prices can only go up, land value can't ever be taxed, and they're given every possible advantage in life. I don't blame any individual to want in on the feast. It's poor policy though.

 

[HACO]

Ahh another anti boomer thread by haco. Wow much shock, so surprise.

ok boomer, but I shall not rest until all boomers are gone

Don't forget that many pensioners, after decades of subsidising the millennials from the "bank of mum and dad", are going to need stretch that pension pot just a little bit further in their grandparent duties to look after all those Alpha sprogs.
Once you look past that massive chip on your shoulder, you might see the value in having the support network of an extended family, and you might want them looked after too.

The richest population in the country don't need an income increase when everyone else's income has been significantly reduced. Nothing personal. Just making sure these people understand that they share a society with the rest of us, and stuff that happens in real life should affect them too. But they're a protected species it seems.

The state pension is worth next to nothing, comparatively - a maximum of around £7,000 per annum. Hardly a fortune and barely enough to stop somebody starving and keep them off the streets - for many of that generation that is all they will have.

Yeah, because they paid next to nothing in taxes (comparatively to other modern countries), so they never built up the state pension trust fund. Other countries (like the US or Germany) were wiser, increased taxes in 1970s or 1980s because they anticipated what's going to happen, and they built up a trust fund. We didn't.

If you are smart you will already have a private pension that outperforms this, you will have certainly benefited from an education system they paid for, much of which has now been slashed for those coming through now.

Millennials had to pay for their own education. The people who benefited from state-funded education and training was those whose income is increasing despite everyone else's decreasing.

Abandoning the triple lock is going to save an insignificant sum when compared to the furlough scheme or indeed any of the other monumental disasters that governments of all creeds typically pee away taxpayers money on.

State pension costs about £100b a year. Increasing it by 18% next year (triple lock) means an extra £18b that needs to come from taxes on working people. It's not insignificant. That £18b can be spent on programs that benefit young families with children for example, who are the population that were negative affected more than anyone else. But no, boomers can't survive without their damn income going up even if the country is burning in flames.

So, once you have confiscated the boomers pensions and repossessed their houses, what's next on the agenda? Mass euthanisation for the over 50's? Get a grip man.

Not wanting the richest demographics in the country to be even richer = mass Euthanasia

ok boomer

If you want to focus your bile on something constructive, consider the massive ever widening gap between the rich and poor (and that spans all generations), or perhaps the current idiotic education system that fails to prepare our youth for anything useful, or the impossible hurdles in starting up a new business. There are many things wrong with this country, the triple lock really isn't the one you should be worrying about.

I just like to bitch and moan, sorry

 

[HACO]

Absolute Codswhallop, do some proper research, the minimum guarantee is 2.5% so tell me what percentage could possibly give £24 ??

Wage growth after Covid next year. It's government's own estimate.

Wages go down up to 20% this year -> state pension increases by 2.5%
Wages go up 18% next year, as estimated -> state pension increases by 18%

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53082530

That's an extra £20 billion that needs to be funded from taxes. That's £750 per working person per year, to give to pensioners, at the time that their earnings have been reduced.

 

[HACO]

I don't see a problem.

I do see people now buying most things on a credit card and live beyond there means.

And they'll have to pay it back, and risk of default is already baked into the interest rate that financial institutions offer. These people are not burdening anyone else.

 

[HACO]

But they moan about things.

Go with out a car\drugs\drink\smoking. You will save a load

And now you're moaning about them.

 

[HACO]

In truth how much of this is the Boomers' fault? If the triple lock is pinned to wage increases because the Government interprets the post-recession rebound as wage increases, how is that the Boomers' fault? Any Boomers on PAYE when they worked (what proportion, I wonder) had no influence whatsoever on their own Tax and NI contributions nor how much of that went into the Pension Pot. Housing Policy is handed down by Central Government and implemented via planning through Local Government, and within that framework the construction companies decide what to build based on what is allowed and what is most profitable. Not really the Boomers' fault there, either. Obviously, the older generations always like to moan at the younger ones. I personally can't wait to do exactly that myself. Beyond moaning, I don't see how any of this stuff can be attributed to the Boomers.

No individual boomer (or person) is at fault. The accumulation of several policies and events have contributed to boomers becoming the most privileged population in the country and others having a significantly harder time at having things that they had for granted, and then these people moan about others being lazy or not entitled, while themselves being the most entitled people in this country.

It's like when trust fund babies tell others "stop being poor" and laugh.

 

[HACO]

I assume everyone complaining won't be claiming their state pension when they can, because it won't be fair on the young.

If I paid less into the state pension fund that I was taking out, I would 100% back a policy that limits my access to it, especially if I had a private pension that I could survive on.

I would also 100% be happy to have to sell my house to pay for my social care.

I would vote against my own self-interest if that means we get a fairer society, and we get money to the poorest demographics, rather than the richest, even if I'm a member of the richest.

Would you do the same? Pretty clear from your posts here that it's a big no.

 

[HACO]

Nope, I'm looking forward to my pension, although I'll be quite surprised if I live long enough to get it.

There you go.

 

[HACO]

Wow I didn’t think that bojo would be stupid enough to give pensioners a 18% uplift. That going to cost billions and billions. The whole point of increasing the retirement age was that the pension was becoming unaffordable. By rights it should already be at 70 based on average life expectancy.

I have read that in order to pay for this 18% increase, the retirement age for current workers will have to increase by 3 years minimum.

It will cost an extra £750 per working person per year, forever.

Sooner or later, this will be added to the taxes that people pay. Whether it will be a tax increase, or increasing the retirement age, or a tax on private pensions, or reduction of other benefits, this money will come from somewhere else in the budget.

 

[HACO]

Don't worry, it will never happen. When you get older you will change your mind, that I guarantee.
There is nothing in socialism that a little age or a little money won't cure.

Not a socialist. Also, what a boomer thing to say, even if you’re not a boomer that’s a boomer’s logic

 

[HACO]

i have been won round to idea of compulsory voting like it is in australia. a more politically aware population is good for society. but i cant see any government doing it tbh.

As long as there are two options on the ballots:

1. None of the above
2. No to the entire political system

 

[HACO]

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-britain-pensions-idUKKBN26R0VO

Sunak confirms triple lock is safe.

Those of us working, we should get ready for the tax hike.

 

[HACO]

FfS . That’s costs more then HS2 is costing. Last calls I saw is if it ends up being a 18% average wage increase then we will all have to pay 4% more tax each year to cover it.

cant wait for the return of the 95% tax bands

It will cost each working person an extra £750 per year, forever. Meaning, a young person entering the workforce now will be paying an extra £30,000 in taxes in their lifetime just for this decision alone.

If that person were to put £750 a year into their own private pension, that would be an extra £90k in their own private pension (assuming 5% return after inflation). At 4% withdrawal, that would be an extra £3600 of income per year in their own retirement. So yeah, each young person is going to be £3600 a year poorer in retirement, to give boomers an 18% income increase at a time of zero inflation, economic depression and mass unemployment.

But young people are the entitled ones, of course.

 

[HACO]

State pension is £7k a year.

That is disgusting. It should be double that at least.

The government should be targeting all the people who are evading tax by working cash in hand, etc. The guy across the road from me has 10 cars and he does 20% discount for cash is an example of how decent amount of additional tax revenues could be raised.

In fact do away with paper cash. Force everyone to do bank transfer and soon questions would be asked why he's receiving thousands of pounds on a weekly basis from strangers.

State pension is low, but there are housing benefit (if they're not homeowners) and pension credit too. So it's already means-tested to a degree. I do support policies that help poor pensioners, but millionaire and home-owner class pensioners don't need more money. They benefited from the greatest housing boom in world history, they can downsize or equity release their homes to pay for their damn retirement. Once that's depleted, they should get help if they need it. The average pensioner is significantly richer than the average worker in this country, literally hundreds of thousands of pounds richer.

And current pensioners benefited massively from low taxation in their lifetime, lower than any country that you'd compare it to that has bigger pensions. The US and Germany have better state pensions, but they also increased taxes in the 1970s and 1980s to run a surplus on the state pension trust fund and invested that to grow for future years where there will be a deficit, because they anticipated the population boom. We didn't do that, our pensioners benefited from low taxes, they can't expect to double-dip by having their pension increased. These are the richest people in society, and have world-leading defined-benefit private pensions as well, with massive tax advantages.

You're not going to raise £110b (cost of doubling state pension) of tax revenue by going after cash-in hand workers. Doubling the state pension means an extra £3500 per year of tax on every working person. On median income, that's a 15% tax increase. Let's make the richest people richer and the poorest poorer, otherwise it's disgusting

 

[HACO]

it should be double that if people had paid 5% more taxes each year for the last 50 years but instead everybody kept voting in whoever offered tax cuts. There is good reason the german pension is double or triple ours. They are prepared to pay more tax each year.

Germany ran a surplus on their state pension taxes for over 25 years in late 1900s, instead of cutting taxes for their people at that time. They saw that their boomer population will retire and will burden younger generations, so they made that same boomer population overpay taxes and ran that surplus and invested it so that there are enough funds for their retirements without burdening their young population.

UK cut taxes, let the boomers have the cash and they bought up all the properties, made themselves much richer and everyone else poorer, created one of the world's worst housing crisis in living memory and now complain that their state pensions are lower than Germany's and demand it should be matched and young people must foot the bill

 

[HACO]

No one wanst to but its a route to homeownership, Im trying to show it can be done to all the moaners.

Any money discussuion here always come down to people moaning about house prices . It's really not the route of all evils however wage deflation that invaribly will lead to low of no pension fund is ,

So your solution is, go live where nobody wants to live?

You know, you can buy a house in some parts of the world for £500 too. #StopMoaning

 

[HACO]

He can't grasp the simple concept of house prices are going up compared to wage so what's the point? Even in these low income areas, those house are still relatively cheap but have increased over the years, Right Move shows these prices.

Even looking at the 10th percentile of house prices versus minimum wage, house prices have outgrown it more than 2:1 over the last 25 years. People who keep saying house prices are not a problem are actively choosing to ignore the facts, for personal gain or whatever other reason.

 

[HACO]

It's a viewpoint that seems to be somewhat unique to this country.

Seems people think Victorian era struggle and poverty is the best way to "breed character" or something.

Meanwhile most of Europe is confused as hell why we'd put up with this ****.

I hate to be the one to say it, but unless we have serious reforms that rights the wrongs done to young people in recent decades, at some point young people will lash out at the system and it won't be pretty.

 

[HACO]

It's funny how everyone I know literally owns their own house.

I only know of 1 guy at work who is renting everyone else owns their own home.

Also the problem seems to be restricted to England and the south of England mainly.

Scotland and Wales look fine on there.

Guess where I am?

Seems like you’re in your own bubble and don’t know what life is like for young people in the country then.

 

[HACO]

There's literally 7 or 8 folk under 30 in my previous team all own their own place. The one guy that doesn't is late 30's.

All trust fund babies?

Home ownership for 24-34 people is 27% for people with middle 20% income. 20 years ago? It was 65%.
https://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/bns/BN224.pdf

You just confirmed you’re in your own bubble of rich kids, with no clue about how the rest of the population lives.