Tripod advice

[D.P.]

And what tripod would you recommend as a minimum?

And what tripod and head would you get if say you have the 70-200 to mount on it.

Sod the theory and the science, I like to see some products.

For a 70-200mm f/2.8 a Gitzo 2531, or preferably 3531, especially if a TC is used or a longer lens is planned in the far future, remember a good tripod could last 20 years so it is worth forward thinking. Of course Really Right Stuff series 2 (and again series 3 for future proofing).

For a head then a Really Right Stuff BH-40, Markins Q10, Kirk BH-3, Arca-Swiss Z1. Again, if a TC is used and especially if one wants to plan ahead for potential bigger lenses in the future then this should become the RRS BH-55, Markins Q20, Kirk BH-1 etc. The, smaller heads are fine for a 70-200 but the larger heads are even more stable, will offer smoother operation even with the 70-200 and are future proof. I found the prices of the larger heads similar to the smaller heads so this wasn't a factor, the only real difference of concern is weight.


Furthermore, for a a 70-200mm lens you will be mounting the lens on the tripod and you will need at a minimum an extra plate for this. Some of the Canon and Nikon lens tripod collars are not suitable and some of the feet are not. On the Nikon 70-200 VR it is best to swap the foot with the replacement from really right stuff. Yep, shame on Nikon for under engineering some aspects of their lenses. I know some Canon lenses have similar problems, no idea if the Canon 70-200 will also needs its collar, foot replaced.



Now, i am not for 1 second suggesting the OP invest that kind of money, he doesn't have a 70-200mm f/2.8 for starters.

 

[Andy90]

DP is giving some good advice and I don't think there is any need to run him down.

Vibration does stem from a number of sources as he has already quoted. One of the biggest culprits to blurry photographs when taken on a tripod is indeed Image stabilisation - do yourself a favour and turn it off when mounted to a tripod - the IS systems can induce a feedback loop resulting in pictures that are blurred.

However that said, the equipment recommended by DP is completely out of the OP's price range - excellent stuff and capable of rock solid support, but too pricy for the OP.

Something along the lines of a Manfrotto 055XPROB and a Manfrotto 496RC2 Ball Head or a Manfrotto 804RC2 Pan and Tilt Head - should come in around the £150 ish mark.

 

[D.P.]

thanks for the support. To be clear, my post above was in response to Raymond asking for tripods and heads for a 70-200mm f/2.8, i stated that this isn't a recommendation for the OP.

the Manfrotto 055XPRo as a set of legs is probably fine for the OP if a little heavy, but none of the Manfrotto heads are particularly nice (actually pretty awful, the reason I hated my old labs 055pro was almost entirely the head). The smaller heads from the likes of Really Right Stuff, Markins, kirk etc are worth considering, BH-30 is small light and very decent, will probably find its way onto a hiking tripod for me.

Heads are really where most tripod setups are let down, even the heads from great tripod companies like Gitzo leave something to be desired. Poor heads is what drove me mad for years, I would compose a scene perfectly, tighten the head until near breaking point, let go of the lens and watch the whole thing tilt 5-10 degrees downwards. Really not a pleasant experience, even if the quotes load capacity was never infringed (e.g. these heads would state 20-30KGs capacity and for sure they wouldn't break with double that weight on them, but they couldn't properly support 2.5kgs.

 

[Amp34]

OP, just something else, aside from the buy a super duper heavy tripod for £500 advice (and the more realistic amounts)... Get a tripod for the conditions you want to use it in!!!

This may end up with you getting several different ones of different sizes in the future but for your first a compromise would be best. Even a fairly poor tripod that is light enough for you to take with you is going to be better than the super duper £500 3kg jobby you leave at home...

For example if you plan on shooting solely at home a very different tripod should be recommended to if you spend a lot of time walking around. The 055XPRO is an excellent tripod if you don't plan on carrying it around much (say in your garden, from the car to the beach or a few hundred yards from the car park.) however I find it too big if you want to travel very far with it. I used to cycle with it 20 miles on my back and it was a pain in the **** but I needed it to shoot the scenes I wanted. If you want something a bit more portable the 190XPRO is a very good all rounder, significantly smaller and lighter but still tall enough for most people if they want to shoot standing up. If you are in blustery conditions any tripod you can realistically carry is going to have issues with vibration anyway, you can always use the hook at the bottom of the centre column to anchor the tripod down if necessary.

As for the Manfrotto heads I think D.P. had a dud or two. I have both a 3 way and ball head from Manfrotto and they are perfectly solid (no sag after release) with everything up to a medium tele prime like the 300 f/4 or a big zoom like the 70-200 f/2.8. If you want to use anything bigger then a gimbal head is probably the best bet, but then you're unlikely to be doing that any time soon so... I would recommend if you do get two or more different tripods to stay with the same manufacturer, makes quick release plates easier to use as they will fit on all your heads no matter which head it came from.

On the other hand something like the Gitzo Traveller would be lovely, however it wouldn't fit D.P.s requirements of being heavier than your gear...

 

[James J]

Even the D3100 has a mirror lockup mode, so no mirror slap there. People walking on wooden flooring? Yeah like I'd shell out a few hundred quid just to avoid that scenario. Wind is a separate issue for pretty much all tripods, not just the cheapest/lowest quality.

 

[D.P.]

Even the D3100 has a mirror lockup mode, so no mirror slap there. People walking on wooden flooring? Yeah like I'd shell out a few hundred quid just to avoid that scenario. Wind is a separate issue for pretty much all tripods, not just the cheapest/lowest quality.

The D3100 does not have a mirror lock up facility, except for sensor cleaning which is separate. It probably has an exposure delay but the delay is too short to mitigate vibrations. So again, you are wrong, just like you were with VR. Please check your facts before posting such things.


Wind certainly doesn't affect my tripod setup unless it is very strong and gusty.

 

[D.P.]

OP, just something else, aside from the buy a super duper heavy tripod for £500 advice (and the more realistic amounts)... Get a tripod for the conditions you want to use it in!!!

This may end up with you getting several different ones of different sizes in the future but for your first a compromise would be best. Even a fairly poor tripod that is light enough for you to take with you is going to be better than the super duper £500 3kg jobby you leave at home...

For example if you plan on shooting solely at home a very different tripod should be recommended to if you spend a lot of time walking around. The 055XPRO is an excellent tripod if you don't plan on carrying it around much (say in your garden, from the car to the beach or a few hundred yards from the car park.) however I find it too big if you want to travel very far with it. I used to cycle with it 20 miles on my back and it was a pain in the **** but I needed it to shoot the scenes I wanted. If you want something a bit more portable the 190XPRO is a very good all rounder, significantly smaller and lighter but still tall enough for most people if they want to shoot standing up. If you are in blustery conditions any tripod you can realistically carry is going to have issues with vibration anyway, you can always use the hook at the bottom of the centre column to anchor the tripod down if necessary.

As for the Manfrotto heads I think D.P. had a dud or two. I have both a 3 way and ball head from Manfrotto and they are perfectly solid (no sag after release) with everything up to a medium tele prime like the 300 f/4 or a big zoom like the 70-200 f/2.8. If you want to use anything bigger then a gimbal head is probably the best bet, but then you're unlikely to be doing that any time soon so... I would recommend if you do get two or more different tripods to stay with the same manufacturer, makes quick release plates easier to use as they will fit on all your heads no matter which head it came from.

On the other hand something like the Gitzo Traveller would be lovely, however it wouldn't fit D.P.s requirements of being heavier than your gear...

Again, i never said the OP should spend £500 on a tripod, merely that one should set an appropriate budget and not be surprised at the costs. If you spend a grand on a camera and lens setup then a few hundred on a tripod + head makes sense. Forgot about your Pro L glass and fancy f/1.2 lenses, a good tripod and head is far more important and makes a much larger difference to photography on any medium telephoto lens and above. people always seem to skimp on tripods and then suffer the consequences and will then happily blame all other equipment such back focusing lenses, soft sensor output etc but wont admit that the tripod is not providing the support necessary.

I certainty agree that 1 tripod wont fit all occasions, a studio tripod is very different to trekking setup. For going light a monopod is really the ultimate tool though, because a really light tripod really is truly worse than no tripod at all (simply hand hold, with VR, open the lens wide and up the ISO).
you also have to put weight into perspective. A good high end tripod with head might weigh 3kgs and a lighter setup 1.5kg. The 1.5Kg difference is the same as one larger lens, or an extra water bottle that goes unused. I do a ot of serious hiking, climbing and ski touring and have saved far more than 1.5kgs by buying lightweight clothing, boots, packs, climbing gear etc. Backpack is a good place to look to save weight, heavy packs can be over 2.5KGs easy, lightweight packs can be under 1.5KG and just as good if not better - that gives you an easy KG to be used for camera gear.

 

[D.P.]

I say it again, I don't think the OP needs to pay £500 at all.

 

[James J]

The D3100 does not have a mirror lock up facility, except for sensor cleaning which is separate. It probably has an exposure delay but the delay is too short to mitigate vibrations. So again, you are wrong, just like you were with VR. Please check your facts before posting such things.


Wind certainly doesn't affect my tripod setup unless it is very strong and gusty.

Theres a trick to get it to work, so whilst not strictly supporting it via a menu, it still can do it

 

[--- Z ---]

Jus tto jump in on this. Would it be possible for people to suggest a few tripods and heads, that they hav and the gear they use on it. It might offer some enlightenment to others about the sorft of tripod they need and teh kind of cash to spend.

 

[Amp34]

Again, i never said the OP should spend £500 on a tripod, merely that one should set an appropriate budget and not be surprised at the costs. If you spend a grand on a camera and lens setup then a few hundred on a tripod + head makes sense. Forgot about your Pro L glass and fancy f/1.2 lenses, a good tripod and head is far more important and makes a much larger difference to photography on any medium telephoto lens and above. people always seem to skimp on tripods and then suffer the consequences and will then happily blame all other equipment such back focusing lenses, soft sensor output etc but wont admit that the tripod is not providing the support necessary.

I certainty agree that 1 tripod wont fit all occasions, a studio tripod is very different to trekking setup. For going light a monopod is really the ultimate tool though, because a really light tripod really is truly worse than no tripod at all (simply hand hold, with VR, open the lens wide and up the ISO).
you also have to put weight into perspective. A good high end tripod with head might weigh 3kgs and a lighter setup 1.5kg. The 1.5Kg difference is the same as one larger lens, or an extra water bottle that goes unused. I do a ot of serious hiking, climbing and ski touring and have saved far more than 1.5kgs by buying lightweight clothing, boots, packs, climbing gear etc. Backpack is a good place to look to save weight, heavy packs can be over 2.5KGs easy, lightweight packs can be under 1.5KG and just as good if not better - that gives you an easy KG to be used for camera gear.

Oh, I agree, but say you'e just on a day hike with 2kg of stuff in a small bag, the extra weight (and size) of a 3kg heavy duty tripod is huge proportionally, especially if you aren't out just taking pictures. The biggest issue I have with heavy duty tripods that you suggest is the length of the damn things more than the weight.

On the other hand when you're actually going away wild camping for several days and already have your non photography kit down to around 5-6kg, after adding 2-3kg for your camera and lenses that extra 3kg is again a lot of weight when you can get something perfectly acceptable for the vast majority of people (for example the 190XPRO) for significantly less weight. There is a reason the Gitzo tripods are so sought after by most people, they are light and sturdy. You can always increase the weight of a tripod (by attaching it to the ground/"hanging" weight off the centre column), it's a lot harder to decrease the weight. Then there is the difference between the materials, the aluminium tripods transmit vibrations significantly more than CF tripods.

As for a cheap tripod not being better than no tripod, I disagree. If it can hold the camera up you can at least use it partly extended and it will be more stable than just hand holding, especially if you use your hands to help steady it. It won't necessarily be perfect but you'll still be able to use a lower ISO and shutter speed.

You may do a lot of mountains but some of the kit suggestions you have done on this forum are downright weird!

 

[Amp34]

I say it again, I don't think the OP needs to pay £500 at all.

What tripod would you suggest suits the criteria you have set out then?

Jus tto jump in on this. Would it be possible for people to suggest a few tripods and heads, that they hav and the gear they use on it. It might offer some enlightenment to others about the sorft of tripod they need and teh kind of cash to spend.

I have a 055PRO which I use with a 804rc2 head, it's a classic combination and for me it is very sturdy. I've used up to a 300 f/4 on it as well as several other relatively heavy lenses (sigma 24-70 f/2.8 and Nikon 17-55 f/2.8). The only issue is it is rather large and heavy so I'd suggest the 190XPRO as that is the other classic. I also have a Giottos GB1060, a tiny tripod that I use when travelling*/walking. It's a little short (a lot) but very sturdy and very light alongside the Manfrotto 484RC2 ball head (small and light). That as well has had no problem keeping a 300f/4 sturdy when shooting at low shutter speeds (and weighs 1.2kg and fits inside a standard 20L backpack). At some point in the future I'll hopefully switch the Gitzo traveller or mountaineer when I can justify the cost (again classic tripods) as they weigh around 1kg each and extend to a decent height.

*Because the 055 is just too big and heavy to take out of the country regularly, even in a suitcase.

 

[D.P.]

Theres a trick to get it to work, so whilst not strictly supporting it via a menu, it still can do it

What trick is this, firmware hack?

 

[ElDude]

I've actually long since lost my example photo, but when I first got a tripod, off I scooted up in the mountains to take a photo of the local football club stadium. 70-300 on velbon sherpa tripod in wind gave me a completely unusable photo. I've been searching for a tripod up to the task for years, and it does seem that ones for that specific scenario cost a fortune.

 

[D.P.]

Oh, I agree, but say you'e just on a day hike with 2kg of stuff in a small bag, the extra weight (and size) of a 3kg heavy duty tripod is huge proportionally, especially if you aren't out just taking pictures. The biggest issue I have with heavy duty tripods that you suggest is the length of the damn things more than the weight.

On the other hand when you're actually going away wild camping for several days and already have your non photography kit down to around 5-6kg, after adding 2-3kg for your camera and lenses that extra 3kg is again a lot of weight when you can get something perfectly acceptable for the vast majority of people (for example the 190XPRO) for significantly less weight. There is a reason the Gitzo tripods are so sought after by most people, they are light and sturdy. You can always increase the weight of a tripod (by attaching it to the ground/"hanging" weight off the centre column), it's a lot harder to decrease the weight. Then there is the difference between the materials, the aluminium tripods transmit vibrations significantly more than CF tripods.

As for a cheap tripod not being better than no tripod, I disagree. If it can hold the camera up you can at least use it partly extended and it will be more stable than just hand holding, especially if you use your hands to help steady it. It won't necessarily be perfect but you'll still be able to use a lower ISO and shutter speed.

You may do a lot of mountains but some of the kit suggestions you have done on this forum are downright weird!

I don't do back-country trips with any tripod because of the extra weight, that is what my lightweight 16-85+70-300VR lenses come in handy for. backpack laid on the ground makes a good support, and I might invest in a good monopod soon. The small Alu tripods are horrifically bad for vibrations, I have several that were given to me, one I use as a flash stand, another is supporting my tomato plants!

I agree that is why Gitzo Carbon fiber tripods are so popular, that is why I own a Gitzo 3531S + RRS BH-55, i have no problem taking that on a 15 mile + 3000-4000ft hike.

I am actually a lightweight gear junky and have partaken in ski mountaineering races where every gram counts (people wear paper thin clothing, drill holes in their boots, remove boot straps and replace them with string, cut off excess rubber the soles etc.). I have heavily invested in some of the lightest gear money can buy. This leaves me with 3 scenarios:
1) Take my light gear and use my "weight allowance" on camera gear including pro lenses and a good tripod. The full works. I will still do 10-15 miles 3000ft with it all, but I will be much more tired and I will be quite slow.
2) Leave the tripod, 24-70mm f/2.8, 70-200 and 300mm f/4.0 all behind and simply take the 16-85 + 70-300VR, hand held. A monopod might make sense here.
3) go very lightweight and simply take my phone with me, in these cases I rarely stop to take photos as I am going against the clock. I want to buy a small pocket camera for this kind of thing (s100 etc.).

A lightweight tripod just doesn't really fit here, but maybe that is because I consider a Gitzo3531 to be relatively light for the support it gives. I am much more likely to simply leave behind the 300mm f/4.0 and use my 1.4xTC with the 70-200 than give a decent tripod in these scenarios.

 

[D.P.]

I've actually long since lost my example photo, but when I first got a tripod, off I scooted up in the mountains to take a photo of the local football club stadium. 70-300 on velbon sherpa tripod in wind gave me a completely unusable photo. I've been searching for a tripod up to the task for years, and it does seem that ones for that specific scenario cost a fortune.

I deleted all my early examples from 70-300mm lenses on a crop body with tripods from £30-130. It is saddening that good tripods cost so much but then you have to put it in relation to the price of good lenses, a tripod will outlast pro L glass.

 

[ElDude]

Do you not find that having 6 sections on a tripod causes you more vibration issues? Just googled that gitzo you mention and it lists it as a x6 tripod.

 

[D.P.]

Jus tto jump in on this. Would it be possible for people to suggest a few tripods and heads, that they hav and the gear they use on it. It might offer some enlightenment to others about the sorft of tripod they need and teh kind of cash to spend.

I am not sure it would be that useful because there is a systemic problem of poor tripod choices in the world of photography. people stretch there budget so much to buy their must have FF camera that they cannot afford a corresponding tripod and refuse to believe that good tripods a few and far between and cost as much as their lenses. People will defend their choices to the bitter end even when they are wrong.

Putting a 200mm lens (even if a cheap f/5.6) on a crop body makes a lot of demands of the support system. People mistakenly believe that tripod stability should be based on gear weight, and that when a tripod manufacturer says the tripod can hold 30Kgs that their 2Kgs of gear is properly supported. Support should be based on focal length

 

[ElDude]

Actually I've now looked at some images of the gitzo in the field, so to speak, and it's a lot larger than I realised, so vibration wouldn't be as much of an issue. I think I saw one on offer somewhere the other day for just under £600 actually.

 

[Amp34]

Personally 2.1kg is not a lightweight tripod, especially when it's 66cm long when closed. But then you do admit you're in the "do without" camp, I'm not. I'd rather have a proper lightweight tripod (around 1kg) that does 90% of the job that a heavy duty 2-3kg tripod does. You may not actually need a tripod for a lot of your shots but mine consist largely of long exposure shots of the sky (hour+) or seascapes of several seconds. Doing without a tripod is not an option if you want to get those shots (although you can balance your camera against a rock or embed it in some snow - done both).

I do agree the really cheap alu tripods are not much cop but still they are generally better than nothing in a lot of situations. It's why I put up with the 60ish cm max height of the Giottos, it's not your average cheap lightweight tripod! It's certainly a great little tripod to stick your medium weight prime (such as the 300 f/4) when your monitoring some birds in the distance.

Anyway we are way off what the OP actually wants, in reality unless you're using large primes (if you're spending £kkk on 300 f/2.8 or 500 f/4 then you're not going to scrimp on the tripod or Gimbal head) then something normal from the main manufacturers is going to be perfectly fine for your needs, especially at the £100 price point.