True Handleless kitchens
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Soldato
@glitch
You'll be pleased to know that after doing a bit more reading i am now in agreement with you about the double built in oven things not being good enough.
I don't think i could lose the pyro self clean function after having it in our current oven and doesn't seem to be any that include that. Presumably due to heat transfer between the compartments.
You'll be pleased to know that after doing a bit more reading i am now in agreement with you about the double built in oven things not being good enough.
I don't think i could lose the pyro self clean function after having it in our current oven and doesn't seem to be any that include that. Presumably due to heat transfer between the compartments.
@Marvt74 - that was exactly my thought process! I'm going for the Neff B6ACH7HN0B which, I think, is the best balance of features.
Pyrolitic cleaning, slide and hide, physical controls and goes to 275°, where some of the fancier models only do 200°.
Pyrolitic cleaning, slide and hide, physical controls and goes to 275°, where some of the fancier models only do 200°.
Soldato
Oh i'll have to make sure i check that. I think our current Bosch suggests up to 300°, which is brilliant for doing pizzas.
i like the look of the AEG ones, I've seen some which have a built in temp probe for food. That seems like an excellent feature if it's accurate.
I think it's Neff that have that weird rectangular button and it just feels like it's going to be broken in 6 months. Just looked and seems yours doesn't have that fortunately.
i like the look of the AEG ones, I've seen some which have a built in temp probe for food. That seems like an excellent feature if it's accurate.
I think it's Neff that have that weird rectangular button and it just feels like it's going to be broken in 6 months. Just looked and seems yours doesn't have that fortunately.
Update on the kitchen... Final five were:
Hacker (with the rounded but easily-staining doors)
Rotpunkt (good doors, good stain resistance)
Schmidt (okay doors, about equal elsewhere)
Mobalpa (rounded door, good stain resistance, horrible carcass/shelf finish)
Nolte (good doors, good stain resistance, fewer carcass options)
In the end, Rotpunkt came out on top - while they don't have a fully rounded door profile, the finish is excellent and they will matchy-match the interior colour to match any of the door finishes.
Plus, the supplier bent over backwards to accommodate me, came in at the best price and generally gave me the confidence that I'll get a great end result from them. Hopefully it'll be done by the end of June...
Hacker (with the rounded but easily-staining doors)
Rotpunkt (good doors, good stain resistance)
Schmidt (okay doors, about equal elsewhere)
Mobalpa (rounded door, good stain resistance, horrible carcass/shelf finish)
Nolte (good doors, good stain resistance, fewer carcass options)
In the end, Rotpunkt came out on top - while they don't have a fully rounded door profile, the finish is excellent and they will matchy-match the interior colour to match any of the door finishes.
Plus, the supplier bent over backwards to accommodate me, came in at the best price and generally gave me the confidence that I'll get a great end result from them. Hopefully it'll be done by the end of June...
Pizza Steel and heating via grill and then using oven heat works for me - but check the specs, some really hide the max temps.
Don't spend out on the oven probe, it's a lot of money for something that you won't make full use of. A standalone Chef Alarm is my top tip - and more useful!
They all have their own little quirks (Neff do a full touchscreen, for example) but I'm fine with physical controls and dials.
Slide and hide is the killer feature for me, so I have to go Neff. Fortunately I found one that works for me!
Anyone with experience of concrete worktops? I'm considering something like this for my new kitchen, which comes from Haus.
Expensive, at around £1k more than Dekton would be, but it really has that proper industrial feel to it and has potential to get better with age.
Any other suppliers/manufacturers worth looking at?
Expensive, at around £1k more than Dekton would be, but it really has that proper industrial feel to it and has potential to get better with age.
Any other suppliers/manufacturers worth looking at?
Concrete is very susceptible to stains and marks, plus it's expensive and incredibly heavy.
We considered it but are fully behind some lovely Dekton now. Not cheap at around £5k for the industrial range, but it looks and feels incredible. The fancy steel type doors chosen for the island deserve the best topping
Also, make sure you get quotes from the Dekton suppliers direct, as a kitchen place will add on a silly markup. Our Dekton quote from the supplier was £5.2k and the kitchen place 'got the quote' at £6800. So it's over £1k markup to pickup the phone a few times to the supplier..........
We considered it but are fully behind some lovely Dekton now. Not cheap at around £5k for the industrial range, but it looks and feels incredible. The fancy steel type doors chosen for the island deserve the best topping
Also, make sure you get quotes from the Dekton suppliers direct, as a kitchen place will add on a silly markup. Our Dekton quote from the supplier was £5.2k and the kitchen place 'got the quote' at £6800. So it's over £1k markup to pickup the phone a few times to the supplier..........
This stuff from Haus is pretty resilient - I've done my standard stain test on the samples and they come up very well. And weight-wise, the Dekton is heavier. I have two samples of roughly the same size and the difference is noticeable.
Price-wise, it comes out about on-par with Dekton, if you go with the same thickness. Slightly more if you want over 30mm but it is a custom product. The thing with Dekton... the pattern is printed on the top, so the sides look stupid in all but two or three of the colours. Not sure I could live with that.
Soldato
That's a good writeup. How much different was schmidt on price compared?
At list, all of them were coming out at around £14k for just units and fitting. Some were a little more, some were a little less, none of them were markedly so.
Hacker (Systemat range) had, for me, the best doors, but the painted finished sucked (stained easily) and only came in one white. All their other doors were edge laminated, so they looked cheap. Only offered three interior colours and there were a few weird issues with units - couldn't do a certain width wall unit, rail options were limited and only in a square profile.
Rotpunkt were one of two who had seamless lacquered doors and they had four 'white' options for me to pick from. They also gave me 16 colours to pick from for the interiors, both straight and curved-profile rails in a multitude of colours and finishes, had the widest variety of carcass options and generally ticked all my boxes.
Schmidt had decent doors, but one white was slightly warm and one too cool - I'd have gone for the latter, but it wasn't exactly what I wanted. More interior colours than the Rotpunkt (24?) and loads of rail options and colours as well. A few issues with carcass options, but nothing overly dramatic. They were the most expensive, but started discounting almost immediately if I signed up there and then.
Mobalpa had a lovely door with a rounded profile, which ticked a lot of boxes. Slightly cooler white than I wanted, but I could have lived with it. Only a few interior colour options, same for the rail, but on a positive note they have slightly deeper base units, so you got a little more space. However, the interior finish sucked (cheap laminate, the 'bobbly' style finish) and they couldn't do me normal-height wall units with lifting doors, only two-thirds height.
Nolte had decent doors, but only one finish I could have lived with and not in a white I liked (too much blue) but suffered on carcass options and rails, etc. I'd have had to compromise a lot on my design to accommodate some of their stupidity and I didn't really feel like they were 'into' the project.
As for the ones that didn't make the final list...
Beckermann were one of the cheapest but their doors were all edge laminated, nothing as nice as the others. Interior and rail options limited, but carcasses were about the same as the others. Finish was okay on the interiors, but just okay.
Nobilia (fashion range) were pretty much the same as Rotpunkt, albeit with a slightly more limited palate to deal with.
Masterclass (an English brand) were just awful. Horrible door finishes, very limited carcass options and generally felt a bit 'second division'.
Wren were actually okay, but I wouldn't buy anything from them due to their reputation and sales tactics. Door finish was painted and very thin at that, everything else was liveable with for the price. Carcasses were thinner, fixings were cheaper, etc.
Hacker (Systemat range) had, for me, the best doors, but the painted finished sucked (stained easily) and only came in one white. All their other doors were edge laminated, so they looked cheap. Only offered three interior colours and there were a few weird issues with units - couldn't do a certain width wall unit, rail options were limited and only in a square profile.
Rotpunkt were one of two who had seamless lacquered doors and they had four 'white' options for me to pick from. They also gave me 16 colours to pick from for the interiors, both straight and curved-profile rails in a multitude of colours and finishes, had the widest variety of carcass options and generally ticked all my boxes.
Schmidt had decent doors, but one white was slightly warm and one too cool - I'd have gone for the latter, but it wasn't exactly what I wanted. More interior colours than the Rotpunkt (24?) and loads of rail options and colours as well. A few issues with carcass options, but nothing overly dramatic. They were the most expensive, but started discounting almost immediately if I signed up there and then.
Mobalpa had a lovely door with a rounded profile, which ticked a lot of boxes. Slightly cooler white than I wanted, but I could have lived with it. Only a few interior colour options, same for the rail, but on a positive note they have slightly deeper base units, so you got a little more space. However, the interior finish sucked (cheap laminate, the 'bobbly' style finish) and they couldn't do me normal-height wall units with lifting doors, only two-thirds height.
Nolte had decent doors, but only one finish I could have lived with and not in a white I liked (too much blue) but suffered on carcass options and rails, etc. I'd have had to compromise a lot on my design to accommodate some of their stupidity and I didn't really feel like they were 'into' the project.
As for the ones that didn't make the final list...
Beckermann were one of the cheapest but their doors were all edge laminated, nothing as nice as the others. Interior and rail options limited, but carcasses were about the same as the others. Finish was okay on the interiors, but just okay.
Nobilia (fashion range) were pretty much the same as Rotpunkt, albeit with a slightly more limited palate to deal with.
Masterclass (an English brand) were just awful. Horrible door finishes, very limited carcass options and generally felt a bit 'second division'.
Wren were actually okay, but I wouldn't buy anything from them due to their reputation and sales tactics. Door finish was painted and very thin at that, everything else was liveable with for the price. Carcasses were thinner, fixings were cheaper, etc.
Nice one, some good info there.
We're pretty set on trillium, but that cuuco all change once we have the units and get them in. Aye it's not ideal having unmatched patterned sides, but the top is soo nice that were not bothered .
My views on similar German kitchens are like yours. Rotpunkt was a close second and the jnterior colour options were excellent. A gunmetal door and copper elsewhere would have looked fantastic.
Leicht won convincingly as it was well prixed, was the only brand with a full height lemans corner unit and a truly stunning unique door finish won us over immediately .
We'll probably be installing around the same time this summer, our order has just been placed.
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Have you seen a large run of Trilium in the flesh? It is markedly different from photos, samples and the resources on the Dekton website - not unpleasantly so and obviously quite striking, but the pattern needs careful attention to make the joins between slabs work.
Same with Orix - looks like a totally different product when you see a large slab of it, samples do not do it any favours at all. And the same is true with Nilium as well, so it might be a running theme with their Industrial collection?!
I’m due for install during the last week of June, have a lot to do before then though... not least settle on a wall finish for the kitchen that’ll work with the units, floor and my planned worktop. Tiles are not happening, glass is not doable and I need all three walls to be the same...
Same with Orix - looks like a totally different product when you see a large slab of it, samples do not do it any favours at all. And the same is true with Nilium as well, so it might be a running theme with their Industrial collection?!
I’m due for install during the last week of June, have a lot to do before then though... not least settle on a wall finish for the kitchen that’ll work with the units, floor and my planned worktop. Tiles are not happening, glass is not doable and I need all three walls to be the same...
Exactly that, it's our biggest worry as the island is an L-shape, so the pattern would run perpendicular at the join as the slab isn't wide enough to turn 90 to ensure matching direction.
We're gonna head down to Cosentino Scotland to have a good look and think about it. Might haha to change to a more generic pattern like keraniun or kadum to ensure it doesn't look crap or even just go orix (which would natch the tiles well(.
There is an island display locally with it installed, but just one length rather than our complicated L-shape islands.
We won't write off concrete either so please keep the thread updated as I'll have a close eye on your progress
Good luck with all the work to do. We have the same to do, ripping out the water damaged Pronorm then all 40m2 of tiles and ply to allow us to start again .Looking forward to the progress.
We're gonna head down to Cosentino Scotland to have a good look and think about it. Might haha to change to a more generic pattern like keraniun or kadum to ensure it doesn't look crap or even just go orix (which would natch the tiles well(.
There is an island display locally with it installed, but just one length rather than our complicated L-shape islands.
We won't write off concrete either so please keep the thread updated as I'll have a close eye on your progress
Good luck with all the work to do. We have the same to do, ripping out the water damaged Pronorm then all 40m2 of tiles and ply to allow us to start again .Looking forward to the progress.
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Well, my final plans were signed off earlier today, with a couple of minor changes.
1. Changed drawer units under oven and microwave area to three-drawer, from two.
2. Raised plinth height to 130mm from 100mm, which puts top of carcasses at 910mm.
Just need to decide on flooring and wall covering, the latter of which Sphere8 are my current thinking, and see if budget stretches to concrete worktops or if I will live with concrete laminate for a few months.
1. Changed drawer units under oven and microwave area to three-drawer, from two.
2. Raised plinth height to 130mm from 100mm, which puts top of carcasses at 910mm.
Just need to decide on flooring and wall covering, the latter of which Sphere8 are my current thinking, and see if budget stretches to concrete worktops or if I will live with concrete laminate for a few months.
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Wow, so much to think about. I'm just starting down the mission of a kitchen/diner conversion for our home. Involves knocking a stud wall down, reclaiming some hall space by adding a stud wall and then working out what the hell I'm going to put where for the bigger space. To say I'm overwhelmed is an understatement! Also going to be doing wood flooring (bamboo maybe) throughout.
One thing I definitely know is I want to go full handleless. Based upon visiting a local kitchen company who had a second nature one on display. I'm also 99% decided on a decent induction (neff likely) rather than gas for hob. Oven, probably neff too, but not precious about that. I've no idea whatsoever about the different worktops, would love an island, or peninsula for the hob, american fridge likely.
I've been ooohing and ahhhing at @PFarrey designs and was wondering where he works. I have a few appointments set up just to get some ideas of what to do with the space, but no money has changed hands yet!
I like the idea of using a local fitter to fit it out as I'm sure it's more cost effective.
Is there a kitchens 101?!
Cheers and hi, my first post!
Dave/Hoffmonkey
One thing I definitely know is I want to go full handleless. Based upon visiting a local kitchen company who had a second nature one on display. I'm also 99% decided on a decent induction (neff likely) rather than gas for hob. Oven, probably neff too, but not precious about that. I've no idea whatsoever about the different worktops, would love an island, or peninsula for the hob, american fridge likely.
I've been ooohing and ahhhing at @PFarrey designs and was wondering where he works. I have a few appointments set up just to get some ideas of what to do with the space, but no money has changed hands yet!
I like the idea of using a local fitter to fit it out as I'm sure it's more cost effective.
Is there a kitchens 101?!
Cheers and hi, my first post!
Dave/Hoffmonkey
Associate
@glitch how did the kitchen install go? like @Hoffmonkey above i am also about to embark on the joys of a new kitchen and im thinking handleless!
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I was slightly gutted to figure out that DIY don't do true Handleless. Howdens now do, but only in a couple of colours and only high gloss. Second Nature do, but I don't know of any cheap outlets for them. Also I understand that Second Nature only offer doors so only solves half the handleless equation.
I'm avoiding Wren. I was going to go get a free design appointment from them (with no intention of buying their wares) , but when my wife tried to book it in for me alone, they said "Oh no, you both MUST come along." Cheerio then...
Tempted to look at Benchmarx too. I have a local company coming round to look the space over next week who will do some design options and quote for supply and fit - not sure if they'll supply only. They use Second Nature doors and some carcass manufacturer down in Poole/Plymouth. In their tiny showroom, the graphite matt doors looked amazing, but I have no clue whatsoever on pricing yet!
Cheers
Hoffmonkey
I'm avoiding Wren. I was going to go get a free design appointment from them (with no intention of buying their wares) , but when my wife tried to book it in for me alone, they said "Oh no, you both MUST come along." Cheerio then...
Tempted to look at Benchmarx too. I have a local company coming round to look the space over next week who will do some design options and quote for supply and fit - not sure if they'll supply only. They use Second Nature doors and some carcass manufacturer down in Poole/Plymouth. In their tiny showroom, the graphite matt doors looked amazing, but I have no clue whatsoever on pricing yet!
Cheers
Hoffmonkey