Trying to get my RAM 100% stable - Advice needed! (3950x, Trident Neo)

Nirurin · 26 Dec 2019 at 23:59

Ok so, I am running:

3950x on a Crosshair Hero VII x470

Trident Neo 3600 18-22-22-42 64gb (4x16gb)

XMP is... just terrible. Boots to blue screen. No bueno.

DRAM Calculator is... also pretty terrible. The timings seem really screwy, I suspect it's not really optimised for 4 sticks like this.

I can get it into Windows and running RamTest1.1 fairly consistently, to the point where it's -almost- stable. As in, I've done this many times before on other boards and with other components, and unstable ram will throw up 20 or 30 errors fairly consistently. At the moment I'm getting 1 error for every 200% ish.

But I can't seem to figure out how I can fix it, as I'm already on some pretty loose timings (which I expected, I already knew that the chip wouldn't run this much ram at max-specs).

Currently I'm on 3600mhz, 22-22-22-48-62-630 and am on 2T command rate. Running at 1.5v dram (fine for Neo) and 1.2v soc (I thought the soc voltage was helping, as I got a 500% with zero errors earlier, but I just got a single error in another test so...maybe not).

Appreciate any help with this, as I've exhausted my (limited) knowledge of ram.

Shac · 27 Dec 2019 at 14:22

What are the options you have selected in Dram Calculator?
Dram voltage at least 1.35?

Nirurin · 27 Dec 2019 at 19:23

Shac said:
What are the options you have selected in Dram Calculator?
Dram voltage at least 1.35?

My DRAM is on 1.5v (seemed high to me, but it's within the recommended specs for Neo. Once I find a stable config I can try lowering it).

DRAM Calculator settings I used are:

Ryzen 2 Gen
Hynix CJR
V1 and Manual (ive tried both)
Memory Rank 2
3600
100
4 dimms
X470

Calculate Safe.

Joxeon · 27 Dec 2019 at 19:31

Try 3200/16

JasonM · 27 Dec 2019 at 20:42

This is what I would try next.

I would test that ram on 2666 with standard timings of 16 18 18 39, at 1.35v.

The reason, it's possible there is a bad cell(s), and if it can't test 100% at stock 2666 you know there is fault somewhere. However if it's stable at standard speeds you can move on to getting ram stable at speed it's sold for.

Nirurin · 27 Dec 2019 at 22:39

JasonM said:
This is what I would try next.

I would test that ram on 2666 with standard timings of 16 18 18 39, at 1.35v.

The reason, it's possible there is a bad cell(s), and if it can't test 100% at stock 2666 you know there is fault somewhere. However if it's stable at standard speeds you can move on to getting ram stable at speed it's sold for.

I'm pretty sure I already did a 500% run at the stock 2133mhz speed (that's the default for ram, i believe?). After my current test ends though I will set it all back to defaults and do another test just to be super sure. I'll report back.

Nirurin · 27 Dec 2019 at 23:00

JasonM said:
This is what I would try next.

I would test that ram on 2666 with standard timings of 16 18 18 39, at 1.35v.

I'm currently at 100% coverage on the stock settings (2166, 15-15-15-36-51-374-2T) without any errors. Going to leave it running for a while anyway, but I'd be interested to hear what you'd suggest my next step should be

JasonM · 27 Dec 2019 at 23:14

Nirurin said:
I'm currently at 100% coverage on the stock settings (2166, 15-15-15-36-51-374-2T) without any errors. Going to leave it running for a while anyway, but I'd be interested to hear what you'd suggest my next step should be

I would do a memory test on it.

Once your happy with a setting, I would increase the speed slowly.

I would also investigate if there has been any motherboard compatibility issues with faster memory speeds, and look at the notes on any BIOS updates.

The important thing is small steps, and making sure the computer is stable after every memory change. Then you can objectively work out the point memory is becoming unstable.

Nirurin · 27 Dec 2019 at 23:19

JasonM said:
I would do a memory test on it.

Once your happy with a setting, I would increase the speed slowly.

I would also investigate if there has been any motherboard compatibility issues with faster memory speeds, and look at the notes on any BIOS updates.

The important thing is small steps, and making sure the computer is stable after every memory change. Then you can objectively work out the point memory is becoming unstable.

ok so, while this didn't happen the last time I did a ram test (using RamTest1.1), it did actually throw an error this time!

So... I'm gonna try it again, maybe using memtest instead, but it seems like there might be a fault with the ram, as this was at completely stock settings?

Any recommendations for replacement ram, i guess?

JasonM · 28 Dec 2019 at 00:01

Nirurin said:
ok so, while this didn't happen the last time I did a ram test (using RamTest1.1), it did actually throw an error this time!

So... I'm gonna try it again, maybe using memtest instead, but it seems like there might be a fault with the ram, as this was at completely stock settings?

Any recommendations for replacement ram, i guess?

Have you tried reseating the memory?

Also how clean were the gold contacts on the memory DIMM's, also was there any dust/dirt on the motherboard side of the memory contacts.

Nirurin · 28 Dec 2019 at 00:16

JasonM said:
Have you tried reseating the memory?

Also how clean were the gold contacts on the memory DIMM's, also was there any dust/dirt on the motherboard side of the memory contacts.

It was my old board (it previously had a set of ripjaw vs in there) so it's not brand new, so potentially. But all 4 slots were filled before so I wouldn't necessarily expect it to have gotten dirty. Worth a try though.

I'm also doing another test now, mostly defaults (2133, etc) but I've raised the voltage from Auto to 1.4, cos it seemed to be running at 1.1v dram according to hwinfo which seemed... low? Also running at 16-16-16 instead of 15-15-15.

Currently on 315% without errors. I'll run it to 500% just to see if any errors pop up, then I'll shut down and clean and reseat and then try for another 500%.

tamzzy · 28 Dec 2019 at 00:48

4*16gb dual rank sticks...
I'd hazard max memory speed should be ~2933c16
With memory voltage 1.45v and cldovddp 1000mv and vsoc 1.1v
I'd start at 2400c16 and work upwards

JasonM · 28 Dec 2019 at 01:02

You can try what tamzzy says.

My suggestion was to try just 1 DIMM (so just 16GB), memory test that one DIMM then start adding the memory back 1 DIMM at a time.

But for now try what tamzzy says as all the memory is populated in the computer.

Nirurin · 28 Dec 2019 at 01:09

tamzzy said:
4*16gb dual rank sticks...
I'd hazard max memory speed should be ~2933c16
With memory voltage 1.45v and cldovddp 1000mv and vsoc 1.1v
I'd start at 2400c16 and work upwards

Reseated and cleaned and am doing another test at stock settings, but with 1.4v and 16-16-16.

It just popped an error at 139% while I was writing this.

JasonM · 28 Dec 2019 at 01:11

What did you use to clean?

tamzzy · 28 Dec 2019 at 01:13

JasonM said:
My suggestion was to try just 1 DIMM (so just 16GB), memory test that one DIMM then start adding the memory back 1 DIMM at a time.

i suspect it's not the ram that's the issue, rather the load placed on the IMC.
dual rank CJR * 4 dimms places a lot of stress on the IMC so it'll probably start failing by the time the third dimm is placed and throw errors - but rather than the actual dimm causing the errors, it's the IMC

Nirurin said:
stock settings, but with 1.4v and 16-16-16.

what do you mean by stock? 2400 (ie stock JEDEC settings) or stock 3600 ram bin speed?
as i posted earlier (iirc) CJR likes vdimm so i'd start off at 1.45v
and wrt to primary timings, i'd start off with 16-18-18-38-64 and go from there

Nirurin · 28 Dec 2019 at 01:15

JasonM said:
What did you use to clean?

Isopropyl Alcohol and a clean cloth.

Nirurin · 28 Dec 2019 at 01:18

tamzzy said:
i suspect it's not the ram that's the issue, rather the load placed on the IMC.
dual rank CJR * 4 dimms places a lot of stress on the IMC so it'll probably start failing by the time the third dimm is placed and throw errors - but rather than the actual dimm causing the errors, it's the IMC

what do you mean by stock? 2400 (ie stock JEDEC settings) or stock 3600 ram bin speed?
as i posted earlier (iirc) CJR likes vdimm so i'd start off at 1.45v
and wrt to primary timings, i'd start off with 16-18-18-38-64 and go from there

Stock is 2133mhz, and auto everything for timings. Except I changed the timings to 16-16-16-16 and the voltage to 1.4v.

Don't know if jedec is different for different boards or something, but default for this board seems to always be 2133.

I'll try a test at 2400mhz, 16-18-18-38-64, 1.45v dram, 1v vdd, 1.15v soc.

tamzzy · 28 Dec 2019 at 01:25

Nirurin said:
Don't know if jedec is different for different boards or something, but default for this board seems to always be 2133

odd. jedec spec for ddr4 max speed is 2400 - so in theory all ram that's rated above 2400 should be able to do 2400...but anyway that's besides the point... :/

Nirurin said:
I'll try a test at 2400mhz, 16-18-18-38-64, 1.45v dram, 1v vdd, 1.15v soc.

good luck

jfyi to clarify, only because you listed 16-16-16-16 and i don't want a miscommunication,
16-18-18-38-64 =
tcl 16
trcd (rd and wr) 18 - ie: 18-18
trp 18
tras 38
trc 64

Nirurin · 28 Dec 2019 at 01:34

tamzzy said:
odd. jedec spec for ddr4 max speed is 2400 - so in theory all ram that's rated above 2400 should be able to do 2400...but anyway that's besides the point... :/

good luck

jfyi to clarify, only because you listed 16-16-16-16 and i don't want a miscommunication,
16-18-18-38-64 =
tcl 16
trcd (rd and wr) 18 - ie: 18-18
trp 18
tras 38
trc 64

Yeh, I always write the rd and wr as separate numbers because.. I don't know why haha. I've entered it the way you describe there. trfc is 530 in hwinfo, command rate is 2T.

I'm not sure the IMC is likely to be the problem though, I've seen multiple examples of people running 64gb on the 3950x at 3600mhz or even higher.