• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

TSMC won't manufacture chips for Biren, the China graphics chip designer, due to public information showing its chips outperform Nvidia's A100 chip.



https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...d-work-for-chinese-chip-startup-amid-us-curbs









^... I have to agree with him sadly... TSMC maybe sticking a target on their backs.
This is what happens when you let your industrial output (the West) move to a country with cheap labour and hostile intent. The USA is having to grab back chip production from hostile waters (52 billion in subsidies spent thus far by the US government) otherwise China will just steal all of its IP (X86 and other IP's), and the UK's as well (ARM should never have been sold abroad).

I believe TSMC is moving some of its factory base to the USA and the chip factories will come online about 2025.

In regard to NVIDIA having, its chips underperform-industrial espionage? It is strange that a country can catch up so quickly, especially as it took them five years to make their own ball point pens!

Industrial investment is now moving away from China, to India, Vietnam and probably other places (including back to the USA).
 
Some commentary from VOA:

In the U.S., semiconductor companies and other tech firms that count China among their largest single markets are facing potentially severe damage to their revenues. Other companies that manufacture tech products in China are having to recall U.S. employees because the ban also bars "U.S. persons" from supporting technology covered by the ban.


Internationally, large chipmakers, such as Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company and South Korea's Samsung, as well as Netherlands-based ASML, which makes chip manufacturing equipment, are reassessing their business with China as they explore how deeply the new rules will cut into their sales.


"It really is reshaping the market," said James Lewis, senior vice president and director of the Strategic Technologies Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "The Koreans, the Taiwanese and some American companies are really nervous about it. I mean, everyone's asking, 'What can I still sell to China?' And in some cases, the answer is 'nothing,'" he told VOA.


Targeting China's military


The Biden administration has characterized the ban as a national security measure, saying that withholding highly sophisticated semiconductors from China will hamper the development of Chinese weapons and surveillance technology.


The trouble is that the same technology that goes into Chinese weapons systems is also necessary for other goods, including electric vehicles, an area in which China is significantly further advanced than the U.S.


It remains unclear precisely how U.S. authorities will enforce the ban. It primarily targets the most advanced chip technology available, meaning that "mature" chip technology — older and less sophisticated chips — will not be affected.


Where the U.S. draws that line, however, could determine whether Chinese businesses such as smartphone manufacturers and commercial aerospace companies are left alone or devastated.


'Cold war' tactic


Experts and pundits saw the imposition of the tough new ban as a dramatic escalation of the Biden administration's efforts to keep China from being able to advance toward technological parity with the U.S.


Writing for the American news publication Foreign Policy, Edward Alden, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, said the move "looks increasingly drawn from the Cold War playbook." He also noted that "the new restrictions, which will be fully implemented as soon as Oct. 21, go well beyond any previous measures by seeking to freeze China at a backward state of semiconductor development and cut Chinese companies off from U.S. industry expertise."


In the Financial Times, U.S. national editor and columnist Edward Luce wrote that "Joe Biden this month launched a full-blown economic war on China."


"His escalation … marks a final break with decades of U.S. foreign policy that assumed China's global integration would tame its rise as a great power," he added.


China reacts


Speaking at the start of the Chinese Communist Party's five-year congress Sunday, during which he is expected to be named to an extraordinary third term as party leader, Xi Jinping did not address the ban directly. However, he did promise to step up investment in areas that would help his country achieve "technology self-reliance."


"China will move faster to launch a number of major national projects that are of strategic, big-picture and long-term importance," Xi said.


In a statement provided to VOA by the Chinese embassy in the U.S., spokesperson Liu Pengyu said that he was not aware of any specific meetings being held in China.


"I would like to note that what the U.S. is doing is purely 'sci-tech hegemony.' It seeks to use its technological prowess as an advantage to hobble and suppress the development of emerging markets and developing countries," Liu said. "The U.S. probably hopes that China and the rest of the developing world will forever stay at the lower end of the industrial chain. This will disrupt the global supply chain and industrial chain, and the final result will hurt itself and others alike."


Industry concerned


Semiconductor companies have reacted carefully to the Biden administration's decision. Although they are acknowledging the government's concerns, they are signaling frustration that they were neither given clear guidance about how the ban will be applied nor given an opportunity to consult with the Commerce Department before it was put into place.


In a statement provided to VOA, SEMI, a trade group representing the semiconductor industry, said that its members understand the United States' national security concerns. In addition, it said, "We are currently evaluating the potential effects of the Commerce Department's unilateral controls on the semiconductor industry in the U.S. and abroad. We plan to provide feedback to the government on these rules, as they were not previously published for public comment."


"We believe it is vitally important that the U.S. government implements these rules in close collaboration with and input from our key international partners in order to limit unintended adverse consequences that could reverberate through the domestic supply chain of this critical industry."

If people thought the pandemic shortages and prices rises were bad,2023 says hold my beer! :cry:
 
This is what happens when you let your industrial output (the West) move to a country with cheap labour and hostile intent. The USA is having to grab back chip production from hostile waters (52 billion in subsidies spent thus far by the US government) otherwise China will just steal all of its IP (X86 and other IP's), and the UK's as well (ARM should never have been sold abroad).

I believe TSMC is moving some of its factory base to the USA and the chip factories will come online about 2025.

In regard to NVIDIA having, its chips underperform-industrial espionage? It is strange that a country can catch up so quickly, especially as it took them five years to make their own ball point pens!

Industrial investment is now moving away from China, to India, Vietnam and probably other places (including back to the USA).
what hostile intent? I didn't think China back in the 70s 80s 90s gave too much bother about anything outside their borders politically or militarily. and certain they are sabre rattling in their region cos guess what - USA is provoking them...with trade wars and sanctions (unilaterally) and going against the internationally accepted accord - Nanci Peloski etc.

anyway diversifying global manufacturing bases is a smart move. covid showed us how vulnerable the supply chain is when all eggs are in one basket. there are other resources that are in the hands of cartel or monopoly type of industries. Oil and Gas, rare metals, shipping Suez is an example, etc etc.

but hoping those manufacturing capacities to return natively, that would not happen. unless £ tanks to next to nothing and UK rejoins EU...then maybe...
 
Last edited:
what hostile intent? I didn't think China back in the 70s 80s 90s gave too much bother about anything outside their borders politically or militarily. and certain they are sabre rattling in their region cos guess what - USA is provoking them...with trade wars and sanctions (unilaterally) and going against the internationally accepted accord - Nanci Peloski etc.

anyway diversifying global manufacturing bases is a smart move. covid showed us how vulnerable the supply chain is when all eggs are in one basket. there are other resources that are in the hands of cartel or monopoly type of industries. Oil and Gas, rare metals, shipping Suez is an example, etc etc.

but hoping those manufacturing capacities to return natively, that would not happen. unless £ tanks to next to nothing and UK rejoins EU...then maybe...
China recently blockaded Taiwan after the Speaker of the US congress visited (an overreaction). China is building a navy to rival the US pacific fleet. Anyway, think this is going off-topic.

Re diversification, that's part of the point I was making. China is now a bad investment, risk is high. Chip production moving back to USA with 52 billion subsidies. And suspicious industrial IP theft.

The pound is now about 113.02 to the USA dollar. I think we can say it has tanked. Which is partly why PC parts are way too high, but not all.
 
what hostile intent? I didn't think China back in the 70s 80s 90s gave too much bother about anything outside their borders politically or militarily. and certain they are sabre rattling in their region cos guess what - USA is provoking them...with trade wars and sanctions (unilaterally) and going against the internationally accepted accord - Nanci Peloski etc.

anyway diversifying global manufacturing bases is a smart move. covid showed us how vulnerable the supply chain is when all eggs are in one basket. there are other resources that are in the hands of cartel or monopoly type of industries. Oil and Gas, rare metals, shipping Suez is an example, etc etc.

but hoping those manufacturing capacities to return natively, that would not happen. unless £ tanks to next to nothing and UK rejoins EU...then maybe...
This has happened before with Japan.

People need to read what happened when Japan started catching up with the US and what happened in the 1980s and early 1990s. Japan was accused of being an enabler of the Soviets and a currency manipulator(IIRC) at one point. Companies such as Toshiba were targetted - even had politicians smashing a Toshiba boombox:

A lot of anti-Japanese sentiment was around back then and lead to things like that:

It's par for the course.

Have people seen that in Cyberpunk 2077 the Japanese are the bad guys? The original Cyberpunk RPG was written in the 1980s. Weyland-Yutani in Aliens - Yutani is Japanese.

I am not saying being more self sufficient in technologies is a bad thing for us,but this is more about balance of power.
 
Last edited:
Absolutely. That’s how a power stays in a powerful position by using its status and power to diminish the rising power.

10yrs ago the world was happy with what China is doing in terms of economy and geo-political stances.

Suddenly last 6yrs, everything u-turned. In the wake of 2008, every western economy was grovelling to China and there was talk of some kind of closer economical linkage to Chinese economical output etc.

Anyway the biggest factor is that US wants to rebalance China influence and power through all means necessary.
 
Last edited:
Give it another few decades, and it will be China restricting their advanced tech from being sold to the US. Well, as long as this round of restricting markets doesn't end up in a huge war as the protectionism in the 1930s did.

In the meantime, China can use this as a distraction and bogeyman to tell their population for their own downturn. Bad property investment, blank-cheques being abused by "industrialists" in strategice areas with ties to the CCP, their Covid vaccine not being very good, etc. all of this they can distract from with this.
 
Give it another few decades, and it will be China restricting their advanced tech from being sold to the US. Well, as long as this round of restricting markets doesn't end up in a huge war as the protectionism in the 1930s did.

In the meantime, China can use this as a distraction and bogeyman to tell their population for their own downturn. Bad property investment, blank-cheques being abused by "industrialists" in strategice areas with ties to the CCP, their Covid vaccine not being very good, etc. all of this they can distract from with this.
Do you know what that might be what they are pulling RN in the peoples congress.

The way I see it is that no one has the power to stop China rising to the top of the world order heirachy. Many historical “leader” of past centuries have foretold as much. But China is the only entity can bring itself down. Atm it doesn’t look good regarding leadership and vision going forward.
 
We can make things profitably in our neck of the woods,and many companies were profitable in the past. However,not profitable enough to meet the needs of the stock market and their speculative margin increases. This is why despite the small guy being pushed downwards,pay getting relatively worse,prices are still going up and profits/margins too. Many Chinese firms are catching up because they are less concerned about high margins and spend more money on R and D relative to their revenues. It's been seen many times,that our companies will cut longer term R and D spends to pump up short term profits and margins,and outsourced it to foreign companies. Has anyone realise this is why Japan and South Korea rose up too?

It's also much cheaper to export the jobs abroad,so there is even lower pay,limited workers rights,health benefits and we can mess up other countries environment too(and not pay for the clean up costs).
 
Last edited:
Those of us with half a brain (in other words half more than a politician) have been saying for decades that out-sourcing anything to China is a really bad idea.

I am surprised in the UK that we haven't outsourced all our energy from China. We probably would have done if we could string some pylons over Kazakhstan and Russia.

I find it quite astonishing that this has been obvious to you, me and every other thinking normal person, but not to these politicians.

One does wonder if these people are actually stupid, or if they are basically corrupt, i think they are corrupt and stupid.
 
We can make things profitably in our neck of the woods,and many companies were profitable in the past. However,not profitable enough to meet the needs of the stock market and their speculative margin increases. This is why despite the small guy being pushed downwards,pay getting relatively worse,prices are still going up and profits/margins too. Many Chinese firms are catching up because they are less concerned about high margins and spend more money on R and D relative to their revenues. It's been seen many times,that our companies will cut longer term R and D spends to pump up short term profits and margins,and outsourced it to foreign companies. Has anyone realise this is why Japan and South Korea rose up too?

It's also much cheaper to export the jobs abroad,so there is even lower pay,limited workers rights,health benefits and we can mess up other countries environment too(and not pay for the clean up costs).

When the entire globalist establishment imposes these restrictions and regulations on everyone but china and co you know its nothing to do with being good citizens in any of the ways they claim.

Remember back in the 1990's how they were pushing what they called "Bio-Mass Fuel" as the new and exciting way to save the planet? You know what that is? its wood pellets, where do they get the wood from? Cananda's forests.

Its still going on et mass, with the globalists blessing. These are the same people that tell you to eat bugs and stay at home...... while they do all of the most environmentally damaging things imaginable.
Its a bit like Meghan Markle preaching to her peasantry (that's us) about how our travel is damaging the planet and 2 weeks later she is hopping from luxury island resort to luxury island resort in a private jet.
 
Last edited:
I find it quite astonishing that this has been obvious to you, me and every other thinking normal person, but not to these politicians.

One does wonder if these people are actually stupid, or if they are basically corrupt, i think they are corrupt and stupid.

I think their arrogance gets in the way. They seem to refuse to want or follow the advice of experts. I mean look at the recent example of Truss. She was told again and again by economists what would happen if she proceeded with her mini-budget, and yet she believed she knew better. They prove again and again that they just don't know what they are doing, but they vehemently believe that they do. I really do think that over (at least) the past 40 years the politicians in this country have done immeasurable damage to this country - simply because they have made misguided political decisions rather than listening to the experts.
 
I think their arrogance gets in the way. They seem to refuse to want or follow the advice of experts. I mean look at the recent example of Truss. She was told again and again by economists what would happen if she proceeded with her mini-budget, and yet she believed she knew better. They prove again and again that they just don't know what they are doing, but they vehemently believe that they do. I really do think that over (at least) the past 40 years the politicians in this country have done immeasurable damage to this country - simply because they have made misguided political decisions rather than listening to the experts.

I agree with you on the damage they caused, but the rest of it suggests they are in it for the country, i have no doubt some are, but many also aren't, they are in it for themselves, take Liz Truss as an example, someone who was anti brexit and turned pro brexit the moment that became politically adventitious, she knew the only way she was going to gain power was to please the 140,000 silver spoon fed geriatrics that are the Tory membership and so that is exactly what she did, that's how she ended up with her insane political direction, Rishi, not that i'm a great fan of his, also knew this, and yet chose to stick to his principles, and it lost him that vote.
 
Last edited:
When the entire globalist establishment imposes these restrictions and regulations on everyone but china and co you know its nothing to do with being good citizens in any of the ways they claim.

Remember back in the 1990's how they were pushing what they called "Bio-Mass Fuel" as the new and exciting way to save the planet? You know what that is? its wood pellets, where do they get the wood from? Cananda's forests.

Its still going on et mass, with the globalists blessing. These are the same people that tell you to eat bugs and stay at home...... while they do all of the most environmentally damaging things imaginable.
Its a bit like Meghan Markle preaching to her peasantry (that's us) about how our travel is damaging the planet and 2 weeks later she is hopping from luxury island resort to luxury island resort in a private jet.

It's because China had no real workers rights,no environmental restrictions,etc for decades. When they export jobs abroad do they try and raising workers standards in those companies to our levels? They don't and instead use it to reduce our workers standards downwards.

In fact in many poorer countries,when worker/environmental standards were raised,the big global companies used to pit them against countries which had less standards,forcing a race to the bottom.

Even WRT to China,the people making the most money is not China or Chinese workers,its the stock market lot. China in the end will have to pay for the price of its environment being destroyed. But China exploited their greed on the same level to rapidly improve their technology base - this is what the stock market lot didn't realise. Well they are so short sighted they forgot about Japan and South Korea. This is what happens when your whole worldview is not just about how much you can speculate on short term margins.

I am not against sharing wealth around the world,and having multiple supply chains but this seems to being done not for the benefit of the average person in the world.

Edit!!

Also an addition - now think how a lot of stuff seems to be going up in price,whilst pay is stagnating? Money printing by governments,low interest rates,etc all fueled stealth price increases in everything over the last decade(just look at the prices in our hobby as an example) which fueled the stock market. That money has mostly gone upwards as people are more and more indebted or use credit more and more. The deficits we run,have happened whilst standards of living are getting worse.
 
Last edited:
It's because China had no real workers rights,no environmental restrictions,etc for decades. When they export jobs abroad do they try and raising workers standards in those companies to our levels? They don't and instead use it to reduce our workers standards downwards.

In fact in many poorer countries,when worker/environmental standards were raised,the big global companies used to pit them against countries which had less standards,forcing a race to the bottom.

Even WRT to China,the people making the most money is not China or Chinese workers,its the stock market lot. China in the end will have to pay for the price of its environment being destroyed. But China exploited their greed on the same level to rapidly improve their technology base - this is what the stock market lot didn't realise. Well they are so short sighted they forgot about Japan and South Korea. This is what happens when your whole worldview is not just about how much you can speculate on short term margins.

I am not against sharing wealth around the world,and having multiple supply chains but this seems to being done not for the benefit of the average person in the world.

Edit!!

Also an addition - now think how a lot of stuff seems to be going up in price,whilst pay is stagnating? Money printing by governments,low interest rates,etc all fueled stealth price increases in everything over the last decade(just look at the prices in our hobby as an example) which fueled the stock market. That money has mostly gone upwards as people are more and more indebted or use credit more and more. The deficits we run,have happened whilst standards of living are getting worse.

Yeah... even our own governments are like this, taxes keep increasing to pay for things they are vested in.

I haven't done a calculation of how much tax we 'actually' pay, if you include taxes on fuels, some foods, NI, VAT ecte.... (IE Stealth Taxes) as that's almost impossible, but if someone did manage to figure it out i bet its not just marginally above the 20% base rate, i bet its quite a large chunk out of every £ you earn.

There are 25 Million working people? how is it they need thousands if not tens of thousands each year from every one of them? that is a stupendous amount of money and where is it all going? Its also not enough... they keep telling us, WTF?

We are taxed up to the eyeballs, we are taxed so much that a family with both parents working full time can be classed as poor in this country compared with many other developed countries.
 
Last edited:
I hope this adds fuel to their already messed up economy. For too long the west has turned a blind eye to horrible, communist, totalitarian states (China and Russia) that just cause misery and hardship to it's neighbors. I just hope Xi Jinping has looked at what's happened to Russia and realises the cost of using his military to achieve his aims isn't worth the price.
 
Back
Top Bottom