Tuition fees

robfosters · 4 Aug 2013 at 22:33

What exactly were the protests all about a while back?

Yes fees went up, but the tuition fee loan system is beyond generous. Can anyone tell me exactly why the students were so up in arms?

Bennie-Mac · 4 Aug 2013 at 22:35

Im guessing it was because they tripled the fees and students wont be getting any more out of it than those before them. Apart from debt of course.

Edit - Sorry I missed your part about the loan system being generous. You are aware how a loan works right?

Xordium · 4 Aug 2013 at 22:36

Because they were rebelling against the authority without actually examining the actual reasons or logic behind the protestations. In my day it was moaning about the Poll Tax. Most teenagers rebel it's what they are meant to do. Then they grow up and throw all those morals out of the window become self-serving ******** and get a house in suburbia. And the cycle continues.

robfosters · 4 Aug 2013 at 22:39

Bennie-Mac said:
Im guessing it was because they tripled the fees and students wont be getting any more out of it than those before them. Apart from debt of course.

Edit - Sorry I missed your part about the loan system being generous. You are aware how a loan works right?

I'm aware that you don't have to pay a penny back until you earn over £21k.

Even then it's only 5% a year on all income over £21k. After 30 years all debt is written off.

Agent_Smith357 · 4 Aug 2013 at 22:40

Saddling 18 yr old's with that much debt is kinda immoral.

Bennie-Mac · 4 Aug 2013 at 22:42

robfosters said:
I'm aware that you don't have to pay a penny back until you earn over £21k.

Even then it's only 5% a year on all income over £21k.

Graduates generally get the better jobs though so £21k is going to be a very attainable wage for most people. It may only be 5% but there is a significant difference between paying back £45k with interest compared to £12k with interest.

Edit - It seems the percentage is actually 9%

arknor · 4 Aug 2013 at 22:43

Agent_Smith357 said:
Saddling 18 yr old's with that much debt is kinda immoral.

None forces them into further education if they don't want the debt get a minimum wage job and don't worry about it

Xordium · 4 Aug 2013 at 22:43

Agent_Smith357 said:
Saddling 18 yr old's with that much debt is kinda immoral.

They don't have to take on that debt.
They only pay it back when they are on a good wage.
Why should someone on minimum wage pay the keep for the future bankers, lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc? Now that is immoral.
There are plenty of ways to get bursaries and support from employers for such training. And if you aren't bright enough to get that then maybe you shouldn't be doing a degree.

robfosters · 4 Aug 2013 at 22:48

To me the system works in in a way where you only pay back if you are financially successful. If you don't earn, you don't pay.

What could be fairer than that?

RomanNose · 4 Aug 2013 at 22:50

Generally the changes are OK, it didn't put me off university. There is one really awful part, it could discourage students from poor backgrounds going to University. £9000 a year in my opinion could possibly discourage the non-numerate students who don't know the facts. The new tuition fees are really not that simple, I doubt most adults actually understand it, let alone young adults.

Smithy · 4 Aug 2013 at 22:50

Xordium said:
Why should someone on minimum wage pay the keep for the future bankers, lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc?

RomanNose · 4 Aug 2013 at 22:52

Xordium said:
They don't have to take on that debt.
They only pay it back when they are on a good wage.
Why should someone on minimum wage pay the keep for the future bankers, lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc? Now that is immoral.
There are plenty of ways to get bursaries and support from employers for such training. And if you aren't bright enough to get that then maybe you shouldn't be doing a degree.

If you are on minimum wage, you probably won't be over the tax threshold.

Bennie-Mac · 4 Aug 2013 at 22:52

robfosters said:
To me the system works in in a way where you only pay back if you are financially successful. If you don't earn, you don't pay.

What could be fairer than that?

It also favours the more financially successful though. E.g the more you earn the quicker you can pay it back and therefore you pay less on interest. It seems to favour the low earners and high earners more than the average earners.

arknor · 4 Aug 2013 at 22:53

robfosters said:
To me the system works in in a way where you only pay back if you are financially successful. If you don't earn, you don't pay.

What could be fairer than that?

yea it gives everyone a chance but the entitlement is strong in this one

alx · 4 Aug 2013 at 22:54

robfosters said:
What exactly were the protests all about a while back?

Yes fees went up, but the tuition fee loan system is beyond generous. Can anyone tell me exactly why the students were so up in arms?

I believe some were protesting about the Lib Dems promising tuition fees wouldn't go up in their manifesto.

RomanNose · 4 Aug 2013 at 22:55

Bennie-Mac said:
It also favours the more financially successful though. E.g the more you earn the quicker you can pay it back and therefore you pay less on interest. It seems to favour the low earners and high earners more than the average earners.

Not really.
The interest is very low, if you were financially successful then it would make more sense to put that money in a saving scheme.

Nitefly · 4 Aug 2013 at 22:58

Ultimately it's a larger debt than before. I still think it sucks that it went up so much.

Good reason to protest in my book.

Westyfield2 · 4 Aug 2013 at 23:00

robfosters said:
What exactly were the protests all about a while back?

Yes fees went up, but the tuition fee loan system is beyond generous. Can anyone tell me exactly why the students were so up in arms?

Because if they get a well paying job in the future as a result of their education, they will have to pay back the loan that they received at below market rate.
This is "not fair" and they should be able to reap the benefits of their education and never pay back the costs.

Unfortunately loads of people do non-degrees or leave the country or don't bother getting a job and never pay back the loan anyways.

Bennie-Mac said:
It also favours the more financially successful though. E.g the more you earn the quicker you can pay it back and therefore you pay less on interest. It seems to favour the low earners and high earners more than the average earners.

Not true. You can pay back the loan any time you want. Many I know have (but I disagree with them as hopefully your investments should be earning more than the 1.5% interest that's on your student loan).

Bennie-Mac · 4 Aug 2013 at 23:02

RomanNose said:
Not really.
The interest is very low, if you were financially successful then it would make more sense to put that money in a saving scheme.

Under the new student loan scheme the interest rates are over 3%, there arent a lot of savings schemes that can offer that sort of interest.

dirtychinchilla · 4 Aug 2013 at 23:02

I think we all felt thoroughly let down, which was one of the major reasons why people reacted so negatively. That, and suddenly a whole load of potential student's future debts tripled. Having said that, I understand that paying the load back isn't much of an ordeal.