Turbos

Matt82 said:
i think youve got the wrong end of the stick.

bhp is just a number. what you feel is torque, look at the torque plot to see how the engine's output will feel as you put your foot down.

the lower/lower sustained torque (vtak) is fine if you have the right gearing (and weight) to match.

bhp is pub talk though
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I realised/remembered that just after i posted :(

Just waned to visualy demonstrate the difference you feel between the 2
 
sovietspybob said:
jdm_dc5_dyno.gif
- VTEC power curve

EvoDyno6_30_2009_0008.sized.jpg
- Turbo power curve

As you can imagine both could make 200bhp say, one will only hit it for a small time at the very top of the power band, and the other will get a good % of its power a lot lower and sustain it for longer, hence the different feel between the 2.
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You only get top end flat power curves on cars that have asthma attacks at high revs.
 
sovietspybob said:
I realised/remembered that just after i posted :(

Just waned to visualy demonstrate the difference you feel between the 2
Click to expand...

those two plots are brilliant visual examples... do love the way the vtak picks up at 5 grand-ish and just surges again. not many engines can manage that, in particular, that turbo output.... with the torque tailing off like its tail between its legs as it gets past 4k
 
Matt82 said:
those two plots are brilliant visual examples... do love the way the vtak picks up at 5 grand-ish and just surges again. not many engines can manage that, in particular, that turbo output.... with the torque tailing off like its tail between its legs as it gets past 4k
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the torque curve for the honda had its tail between its legs the entire way though, near its lowest point it almost has more torque than the vtec at its highest point

oh sorry

+1
 
Torque is useless without the overall power, just because a Honda NA doesnt have torque it doesnt automatically make it slower than a diesel for example

Honda's are well known for a lack of torque it doesnt stop them from being immense fun and quick cars
 
It'll be a never ending pointless debate but if that was the case then Fabia VRS with the same gearing and final drive as a Integra Type-R would be the quicker of the two
 
Relentless81 said:
It'll be a never ending pointless debate but if that was the case then Fabia VRS with the same gearing and final drive as a Integra Type-R would be the quicker of the two
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the debate would go no further than your post there because the whole of the world would have suffocated to death whilst ROFLING at your post. FACT

vrs is about 50-60 bhp short of the R. dont be crazy relentless
 
Well yeah it really wouldnt work but I was speaking hyperthetically for the sake of the "how important is torque" argument

Which isnt an argument, as I cant be bothered arguing, so i'll say debate instead :)
 
Matt82 said:
youre wrong

the vrs doesnt have more torque. it has a higher peak torque. seriously, put some thought into
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Fair enough, it was a stupid comparison but i'd hoped you would have got the jist of what I was trying to say without being pedantic

Fact is there are plenty of NA or more specifically VTEC powered motors that are quicker than their FI equivelants and as i've already said vice versa, torque isnt the be all and end all of a quick car there are other factors
 
at the end of the day if you put 2 engines with identical (initial) cam profile etc - one with a turbo attached and one with DOHC VTEC side by side there wouldn't be much in it...

(They'd both just sit there ;))
 
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Matt82 said:
power is just a number imo. its the torque that gets you down the road
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Torque at the wheels not the engine. Even then a torque figure by itself tells you nothing about performance - a tractor can develop an enormous amount of torque at the wheels, but it's not a very quick machine on the road. Torque can not move anything without power.
 
Dogbreath said:
Torque at the wheels not the engine. Even then a torque figure by itself tells you nothing about performance - a tractor can develop an enormous amount of torque at the wheels, but it's not a very quick machine on the road. Torque can not move anything without power.
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yup, agree with all that. the dyno torque plot is useful. that shows you effectively how hard youll be shoved down the road. peak figures, of anything, are near enough meaningless. the torque plot not only shows the shove but also shows the character of the engine ie that turbo one earier tailing off at the end which can be compared to a revvy screamer that pulls hard and harder the further it gets up the range like my gti
 
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