Turkish Grand Prix 2011, Istanbul Park - Race 4/19

JRS said:
The big problem now is the tyre compound rule.

What we really need are two tyres. One - a soft, grippy compound that can be coaxed into doing 45 miles or raced hard with for 20. Two - a hard wearing tyre that can run for 60 miles at a half decent clip or coaxed into running a race distance if you're prepared to sacrifice time on the road in favour of not stopping in the pitlane. Right now, there's actually no real difference in the two compounds that Pirelli bring - they're both knackered in pretty short order.

The thing is - drivers have to use both compounds in the race. So there's bugger-all incentive for Pirelli to make the tyre compounds all that different. The FIA has a very simple choice here - either mandate one tyre compound for each race, or allow free reign on tyre strategy. And in this era of cost cutting (where you can't test your car in-season, but you can spend a ****-load on finding a diffuser design that steals a march on your rivals....) there's pretty much no chance of TPTB allowing teams to use the tyre they want, when they want to.
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Exactly this, and it's so head crushingly obvious I don't know why it hasn't been suggested by the powers that be.

There will never be any great gravitation from what we see now until they scrap the ridiculous 2 compound rule - because it puts everyone in the same boat.

Remember Pirelli are designing these tyres pretty much to order - they are giving F1 what they want. F1 wants tyres that degrade in a pretty spectacular fashion, and that is exactly what Pirelli have built.

People who've watched F1 for a long time will remember races like Paul Ricard in 1990 where Ivan Capelli and Mauricio Gugelmin ran at steady pace throughout on a no-stop strategy (IIRC) and Prost only just nailed Capelli shortly before the finish on fresh tyres.
 
Lopéz said:
People who've watched F1 for a long time will remember races like Paul Ricard in 1990 where Ivan Capelli and Mauricio Gugelmin ran at steady pace throughout on a no-stop strategy (IIRC) and Prost only just nailed Capelli shortly before the finish on fresh tyres.
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2 races ago, Vettel tried stopping 3 times (and would've got away with it, had he led on lap 1 and opened up a 5-10 second gap on the first stint), Hamilton stopped 4 times and Hamilton made it past Hamilton in the dying laps of the race.

I contend that we are getting similarly exciting, unpredictable racing as we have had in the past.
 
sunama said:
2 races ago, Vettel tried stopping 3 times (and would've got away with it, had he led on lap 1 and opened up a 5-10 second gap on the first stint), Hamilton stopped 4 times and Hamilton made it past Hamilton in the dying laps of the race.

I contend that we are getting similarly exciting, unpredictable racing as we have had in the past.
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Don't get me wrong, I have really enjoyed this year, I like the new tyres. But I think the situation would be better if there was no 2 compound rule, I always have.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Are you not watching the racing, there is no variation in strategy. It was 4 stops or fail.
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There is variation in strategy.

2 races ago Vettel used 3 stops. Hamilton used 4 stops. In the last few laps, Hamilton got past.

Vettel's strategy didn't pay off.

In the last race, Button tried a 3 stopper, but got stuck behind slower race cars for many laps. This meant that he lost out to some of the 4 stopping cars.

In every GP, 1 strategy is ALWAYS going to be quicker. However, if you are daring enough, you can decide to use a different strategy, which may work better for you and give you more options during the race.

...And before you say that Button got his strategy all wrong...McLaren have a room full of professionals and super computers who helped Button work out that strategy...unless of course you are suggesting that those strategists are cr@p at their job? ;)
 
The 2 compound rule is a reaction to having a single tyre supplier. A number of suppliers wanted in this time round, including Michelin who only wanted in if there was more than one supplier and some competition.

The FIA chose a single supplier again, so don't expect the 2 compound rule to go any time soon. However, the simplest change they could do would be to remove the 'start on qualifying tyres' rule. At the moment all of the top 10 start on the same tyres with about the same life left in them. A mix of hard and soft in the top 10 would allow the teams to flex their strategy, and provide some interesting watch.

I don't really understand why they made that rule.
 
EVH said:
I predict Monaco will be a 5 stop race.

Pirelli bringing the red stripe super soft :)
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might pay to get a stop in and stay out for aslong as you can even if your slow its almost impossible to overtake in monaco anyway.

kobayashi will probably do it
 
wont suprise me if we get some 2 stoppers at monaco anyway.

i would qualify on softs and manage them for aslong as i can before pitting for hards and trying to make them last the rest of the race.

monaco cant be that hard on tyres?
 
arknor said:
might pay to get a stop in and stay out for aslong as you can even if your slow its almost impossible to overtake in monaco anyway.

kobayashi will probably do it
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I've seen various drivers pass at Ste Devote, Mirabeau, the hairpin and into the Nouvelle (even back when the cars were wider). Not as often as other GPs, but it's possible. Even Webber managed it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_oFcAdysXE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4ATz6D7o4k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fksZyKRcpIs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3_4tazjZIE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwCKVAblc6I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prdG15qNGvg

I could go on, but you get the idea :)
 
sr4470 said:
I've seen various drivers pass at Ste Devote, Mirabeau, the hairpin and into the Nouvelle (even back when the cars were wider). Not as often as other GPs, but it's possible. Even Webber managed it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_oFcAdysXE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4ATz6D7o4k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fksZyKRcpIs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3_4tazjZIE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwCKVAblc6I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prdG15qNGvg

I could go on, but you get the idea :)
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It is certainly possible, but in the past, for a car to overtake it has to be at least a good 1.5 to 2 seconds a lap faster than the car infront.
 
CaptainRAVE said:
It is certainly possible, but in the past, for a car to overtake it has to be at least a good 1.5 to 2 seconds a lap faster than the car infront.
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That would explain Coulthard making a meal of the 2001 race, sitting behind Bernoldi's Arrows for ~40 laps despite having a clearly quicker car :p

No, it needs a good driver first and foremost.
 
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