TV Fixtures and TV Rights thread.

[BaZ87]

Cosimo has been very kind in posting the tv fixtures every month or two but they're often lost in the Banter thread so I've created this thread where he (if he wants) or anybody else can post the TV schedule. BT announced that they won the rights to the CL again recently - things like that can go in here too.

No discussion of illegal methods of watching the football. Anybody that even hints at anything illegal will be banned.

 

[BaZ87]

Interesting news about the next set of PL TV rights:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...remier-league-games-shown-live-tv-first-time/

• 42 additional games will be broadcast live taking the total of live games up to 200 per season
  
• Every match from 3 rounds of midweek games and a bank holiday round (either boxing day or new years day) will be broadcast live simultaneously
• 8 new Saturday 7.45pm live games.

I read an article on this a few weeks ago, reporting that the PL were looking at showing all midweek fixtures live as an alternative to the Saturday evening games so it's a bit of a surprise that they've decided on both. The decision to broadcast all the midweek fixtures was a step in the right direction and a bit of a no-brainer - it gives us the option of choosing exactly which games we want to watch and it also allows Sky/BT to get some of their minimum quota of Burnley, West Brom etc games out of the way without having to sacrifice more interesting matches. I'm not sure why they're only doing this for one of the Boxing/New Year day rounds - I can only think that some of the smaller sides were against it because of possible effects on ticket sales for these games.

 

[BaZ87]

I look forward to the inevitable BT and Sky price hikes.

It's not so much a price increase from Sky and/or BT that we should worry about but the possibility that a 3rd or even 4th company get one of the packages of games - we could have to subscribe to even more places.

 

[BaZ87]

Sky and BT have signed an agreement to share their sports channels, so you will be able to watch BT football on Sky for no extra charge. Not until 2019 though

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42364401

Unfortunately I don't think that's quite correct. I believe this simply means that you can log into your Sky account and add BT Sports through Sky, rather than have to subscribe via BT. I suppose it's possible that Sky could bundle it together with their Sports packages but I highly doubt it and even if they did, they'll most certainly increase the cost.

 

[BaZ87]

Yeah we'll definitely see indirect price rises, but that's just standard Sky, but there will be no extra cost for Champions League. The article states that as well as other articles, not sure about Premier League.

As it stands though, you can add BT Sports to Sky and vice versa and pay extra, so it would make no sense to announce it now as if thats a new thing

You can add BT Sports to Sky but you have to subscribe via BT. This agreement simply allows you to do it directly via Sky. All they're doing is allowing each other to sell their channels, rather than it only being available directly from themselves (even if you physically watch it through your Sky box).

You've misunderstood if you think this means BT Sports will be available on Sky for no further cost and vice versa.

 

[BaZ87]

Personally I'm not convinced that several different companies having rights is a good thing, it only means having to subscribe to multiple services and I've never noticed believed that it saves the consumer any money, it's just more of a faff in the long run.

It 100% doesn't save consumers money. The argument put forwards by the PL is that by selling the rights to more than 1 provider it gives consumers the option of choosing which provider they want to subscribe to. The problem with that argument is most people that are willing to pay to watch televised football more than likely want to watch all the football available to them, not just some of it and as a result they have to subscribe to both Sky and BT.

The line from the PL is a load of *******s. The reason for breaking the rights down into multiple packages and selling to more than 1 provider is purely to generate as much money for the League as possible. Around 10 years or so ago domestic TV rights stopped growing and iirc may have even declined at one point because all the fixtures were being sold as one and nobody could compete with Sky - Sky knowing they had no competition, weren't willing to pay any more than they already were. By breaking the games up into packages it increases the competition to Sky - BBC for instance can't bid £5-6bn for the entire rights but maybe they can afford to bid £800m for 1 package of games and that's what is forcing Sky to pay a premium on each package and is generating more money for the PL.

 

[BaZ87]

Yep, it definitely seems like it's the PL's way of making more money, I think you're right. I guess the only flipside to the argument is that if the PL can generate more money they can probably also pay more for new players and increase player wages, thereby (hopefully) attracting the best players in the world to the PL. Of course there are outliers to this like PSG, Barca, Real Madrid, and Bayern, but it can't be a coincidence that there are a record number of PL teams in the knockout phase of the CL and it was only a couple of years before that that the PL rights went up in value so much.

While I'm sure it's helped, I don't think the amount of TV money generated is the biggest factor in our upturn in Europe. For years the Premier League has generated more money than any other League in Europe however because of the way that money is split our top sides haven't been making as much as Real or Barca - the recent TV deal has meant that they're now making similar amounts. You have to remember though that we went through a period of being the dominant League in Europe despite that. From 2005 to 2012 we were regularly getting multiple sides in the latter stages of the CL and had 8 finalists in 8 seasons. IINM there was a 2 year period where the only non PL sided to beat a PL side in Europe was Barca.

The reason for our success back then and lack of it in recent years hasn't been money but the quality of managers at the top sides. In Mourinho, Benitez, Fergie and Wenger we had the best managers in Europe during that period where we were successful. The overall quality of managers at the top/cl sides in the years that followed was no where near the same - Moyes, AVB, Redknapp, Rodgers, Mancini, Pellegrini etc. With Klopp, Pep, Mourinho and Poch we've got 5 of the best managers in Europe again.

 

[BaZ87]

A breakdown of La Liga's TV money came out yesterday:

http://www.marca.com/en/football/spanish-football/2018/01/02/5a4bce97ca474112278b4579.html

Barca and Real earning 3 times as much as the smallest clubs, double the 4th biggest earners and even 50% more than Atletico in 3rd. It really puts into perspective just how big the PL TV rights are because despite all that Barca earned around €20m less than all our top 4 (around the same as Everton in 7th) and the PL's bottom ranked side earned more than Atletico.

Breakdown of last seasons PL tv money is here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40125394

 

[BaZ87]

I want to know how on earth they got away of pushing last Saturdays Spurs -v- West Ham all the way back to tonight (Thursday)? Only 48 hours after after both clubs played on Tuesday and allowing some other clubs to play two games in that period.. Yet the last day of the season all games must be played at the same time to give fair advantage.. What a joke that is.

It's a pain the **** for tickets holders when games are constantly being switched.. The sooner all games are available as Per Per View rather than scheduled across the whole weekend the better.

Surely you're not complaining about any disadvantage to Spurs are you? When I saw that the game had been moved from New Years Eve I automatically assumed it was the police that made the decision - potential for a bit of trouble at this game and the police not having enough units available because of New Years. I have no idea if that was the actual reason but it definitely wasn't moved for TV purposes though. The game was scheduled to be shown on Sky on Sunday anyway as part of one of their 3 game Super Sundays.

That said, it worked out as a huge advantage to Spurs and West Ham - both sides went into their boxing day fixtures knowing they had a full week before their next game, which allowed them to not have to worry about resting players for the weekend (unlike their opposition that day) and of course had a full weeks preparation for their game on Tuesday (again, unlike their opposition that day). With the exception of a couple of sides, due to TV scheduling, pretty much every side ended up playing 2 games in 3 days at some point over New Years.

Regarding your point on making all games available on pay per view, over the weekend, I don't think that'll ever happen. The PL want to keep the value of the rights as high as possible and doing that will lower the value to Sky/BT - there wouldn't be a noticeable increase in viewing figures (and subscribers) if Sky were showing 4 games live simultaneously than if they were showing just 1 game. Most of the supporters from the other 6 teams would end up watching the other match anyway. The League want to sell the rights to more games but as we've seen with the new rights auction coming up, they're doing so by adding new TV slots (we're going to have Saturday evening kick-offs from 2019).

The only games that we'll ever see being shown simultaneously are the Boxing Day, New Years Day, last day of the season and midweek rounds simply because they can't have 10 different kick-off times for each of these rounds of fixutres.

Saturday 3pm games will still be barred from UK TV. The lower league clubs will always veto any plans to show them fearing for their attendances.

As above, that's not the reason why all PL games aren't being shown on TV though. They could easily move all the Saturday 3pm's to Sunday's.

 

[BaZ87]

One provider one price. Extra £ into grassroots.

They won't do this any time soon. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the reason for breaking the rights up into multiple packages was because nobody could compete with Sky. By selling packages of games it brings all the other broadcasters back into the fold and forces Sky to pay a premium on every package.

If Amazon and Facebook were going to enter I suspect it would be for the international rights (which aren't up for renewal any time soon AFAIK) rather than just the UK rights. Sky and BT are still UK centric, despite their burgeoning interests abroad. They were rumoured to be sizing up a bid last time too but, again AFAIK, only BT and Sky submitted any bids at all.

Both the domestic and international rights are sold at the same time with the current agreements finishing at the end of the 18/19 season. A number of the international deals (for 19/20-21/22) have already been tied up, it's the UK rights auction that's about to kick-off. This Amazon link is in relation to the domestic rights - who knows whether they'll make a serious bid though, I wouldn't bet against this being a scare tactic from the PL to force Sky/BT's hands.

 

[BaZ87]

The EU mandated that a single provider was anti-competitive and forced the PL's hand and said no one provider could have all the packages.

The EU simply stopped Sky being able to buy all the packages. The decision to sell the rights as packages of games rather than 1 block was taken 3 years earlier when iinm, Sky won all the packages.

 

[BaZ87]

Has the premier league cash bubble started to burst?

No it hasn't. The last sale Sky were under huge pressure from BT and were forced to over pay to make sure they kept their spot as top dog. The recent agreement between Sky and BT has helped both parties - obviously it would be illegal and there's no way they'd have done it but the fact that BT and Sky have both ended up paying roughly the same amount on a per match basis makes you wonder whether this was discussed when they reached their channel sharing deal.

Once these other 2 packages are sold the overall income from the domestic rights isn't likely to drop by much, if anything at all. Any loss will be more than made up for with the expected increase in the overseas rights sale.

Who ends up buying these remaining 2 packages is going to be interesting and could shape the next sale in 3 years time. Seeing as Sky have announced their deal it would appear as if they're not going to be bidding (iinm they can only get 1 of the 2 anyway) which leaves BT and the possibility of somebody new - it's strongly rumoured that Amazon are seriously interested and will go after these smaller packages to test the water. If that happens and it goes well then the auction in 3 years could be like the last one with another massive increase.

 

[BaZ87]

There's some speculation on twitter as to why the last 2 haven't been announced yet - whether because bidding is still on going or because the reserve price wasn't met. It looks like it's between BT and Amazon. These last 2 packages are the matches that will be shown simultaneously for the first time (midweek and bank holiday games) so aren't as valuable.

 

[BaZ87]

Us, BT and Sky all hope BT get them, the PL clubs will be crossing their fingers for Amazon. Talk from a few journo's on twitter is that it could be tomorrow.

 

[BaZ87]

They're selling more games this time and the end result is likely to be a small decrease in the total value of the domestic rights. More games does not equal more money for the PL unless the broadcasters believe these added games brings more value (viewers/subscribers) to them. When the final two packages of games are sold (the 4 rounds of games to be shown simultaneously) we're likely to see the price per game paid to be considerably less than what Sky & BT have paid for their games because whether a broadcaster is showing 5 games simultaneously or just 1 game, the total number of subscribers/viewers isn't going to change a great deal. Broadcasting 3pm's (which isn't likely to happen anyway) isn't the answer - what the PL want to do is create more, different kick-off days/times so they can sell more games but crucially for them not to be simultaneous broadcasts. I guess they're testing the water with the 8 Saturday 7.45pm games and if they're a success they'll add more games of these.

What the PL really want though is more competition to Sky. I wouldn't bet against the PL of accepting a smaller offer from an Amazon, Facebook, Netflix, YouTube for these remaining two packages than what BT & Sky might offer to allow them to test the market. The PL know that the best chance they have of getting another massive jump in revenue in 3 years is if one of these guys makes a serious play for the top packages.

 

[BaZ87]

Should be confirmed later today but Amazon are supposed to have bought the rights to 1 of the 2 unsold packages, with BT taking the other.

 

[BaZ87]

It will be interesting to see if they do include it in prime or up prime cost or just make a prime sport pass

They've only got 20 games spread across 2 match days - I can't imagine they can justify an increase in a monthly, year round subscription for the sake of 2 days worth of extra content. At a guess they may include it in prime and charge ppv for non prime customers.

It looks like they're just testing the market at the moment with the view of challenging Sky properly in 3 years time.

 

[BaZ87]

Confirmed now, Amazon have one package of 20 games and they will be included in Prime.

 

[BaZ87]

Another bit of news coming out of the PL meeting today, a compromise has been reached on the distribution of overseas TV money. Unlike domestic rights, where they are partially split based on league performance and number of TV appearances, overseas TV money has always been split equally among the 20 clubs. Over the last year or so the big 6 clubs have been pushing for overseas money to be distributed on performance and until today had been out voted. It's being reported that a compromise has now been reached - £3.3bn (the current value of overseas rights) will continue to be split equally however any increase over and above that £3.3bn (which is a certainty) will be distributed based on League position.

Not too fussed about that, already have Prime so happy days as far as i'm concerned. Hopefully it'll be 4k!

As above, it looks like Amazon are just testing the market and if it goes well they could rival Sky for more packages in 3 years time - that's when it will hit supporters because if Amazon end up spending billions to win more rights there's no chance they'll not be passing that on to customers.

 

[BaZ87]

Sky will just overpay again if they try and do that, naturally that will end up being passed onto the customer so regardless of who gets the rights it's the consumer that gets bent over. Or you pay the same amount for less content.

Same thing happened when BT came in.

I wouldn't bet on Sky retaining as many games in 3 years time. If this goes well for Amazon and they decide they want more games, they have the money to blow everybody out of the water - how that works for the consumer is anyones guess right now but I wouldn't be certain that it would be a negative for us. If Amazon were to take on Sky's position and hold the majority of packages, I think it would work out cheaper for the consumer than as it is with Sky.

Makes sense really, I cant think that there are too many funds coming from Overseas rights because of the Overseas market wanting to show Stoke v West Ham (no offense to their supporters, just stating what seems obvious) , I would imagine that most overseas markets are paying because they want to see the bigger teams and if it wasnt for that, the overseas wouldnt even bother. As someone said the other day, 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

That's always been the argument and it's true however the PL has been built on it's competitiveness - the difference between tv money between 1st and 20th is about the same as between 1st and 3rd in Spain and around half of that between 1st and last in Spain.

200 live matches.. 3pm KO will be a thing of the past - great shame.

Until laws change regarding televising Saturday 3pms then we'll see fewer and fewer of them. If this Amazon deal goes well and a change in law is passed then we could see Saturday 3pm's back again.