TV v Projector Dilemma

[Abyss]

Few considerations in my room:

- Walls are matt black, my ceiling is grey as are the coffers.
- The carpet is black with thick underlay.
- The screen is attached to the wall and has a non reflective border.
- The windows have blackout blinds and then acoustic theater cloth attached to a wooden frame "plug" which goes in the window recess with acoustic insulation behind.
- Have 7 seats all are black as are the tiered seating stages.
- Everything is Phillips hue, the whole room is controlled through an app, the door is a fire door and "sealed".
- The AC ductwork into the room is sound insulated.
- System is wired for 9.2.6, though I only use 7.2.4 at the moment.
- Projector is mounted on the back wall as far away from the back seating as possible and is black.
- Rear seats are moved away from the wall to help move you out of any Bass accumulation zone.
- All Av equipment, i.e. processor / amps / shield etc etc is hidden under the tiered seating with wisper quiet fans.
- Acoustic absorbers on first and second reflection points.
- Got some acoustic foam on walls opposite the side channels.
- Room is corrected using REW and a UMIK-1, multisub using a MiniDSP 2x4HD.

So much goes into a dedicated room, mine will never ever be finished, you always find something else to do, or go reading an discover a better way to do things.

Using the room to watch a movie is an experience and we really enjoy it, still feels special, I would not entertain the idea of having a projector in a normal living room, it simply isn't worth it, better off getting a TV.

Cheers, sounds like a great setup. I am doing my best to resist the temptation to make audio changes, but have you found the acoustic treatment as made a big difference and how are you finding Atmos?

Completely agree with you in terms of the seat away from the wall, it's slowly crept forward and is now about 1m from the back wall. Still not perfect but a lot better and has also meant i can centralise the sub behind the sofa.

 

[Abyss]

Agreed with Lucid's summary.

Just my 2 cents: I have QLED (with soundbar), OLED (with 5.1) and a 4K pseudo Optoma UHD300X projector with Dolby Atmos 5.1.2 onto a 130" screen.
They are in different rooms.
The QLED is in my living room which is very bright hence the super bright Samsung QLED option.
OLED is in my loft "man cave". OLED in the living room would be a no go for daytime viewing.
The projector and Atmos setup are in the kids playroom. Nothing special done to the room from a cinemaphile perspective. But this kit gets used at nighttime when all sound asleep upstairs and therefore no bright light to compete with. I would not use this during the day unless blinds and curtains drawn which is not practical with daytime family life anyway. Viewing position is maybe 2.5m which makes it utterly epic and even watching any Amazon Prime content becomes an occasion.

Now the point I will make is: they are all great experiences that I use for different things. But lets be clear (in my opinion) - playing something like HALO 5 on a 130" screen with 5.1.2 is incomparable to the experience of either of the TV setups. Absolute PQ is not the only measure.
So my summary - have a TV and a PJ if you can - but there is no need to go for the whole "cinema room in your house" before you can have a great experience with a PJ. I just find that is often an argument made by TV users to dissuade people looking into PJ's.

I must admit this definitely resounds with me. Pre-covid plenty of people wanted to come and watch films here on the projector even though they had big screen TVs at home. I think I've spent too long watching most things on 120" that watching content on a screen nearly a quater the size just isn't the same.

 

[Rroff]

Even at similar sizes to a TV - even if you can't match the resolution and sharpness of a high end TV there is something about the way light works with a projector that makes a big difference when watching a "blockbuster" movie, etc. and while daylight can be an issue you don't need a super specialised projector setup to enjoy that - though it helps.

I've actually been watching a lot of content lately on my Philips Momentum 436M6 "QLED" as with the technology used and contrast, etc. even stuff that doesn't have HDR looks very HDR and it is way up there in terms of the convenience factor none the less it pretty much shrugs off daylight as a factor - but it still doesn't compare to the sense of occasion I get with my projector (and having moved house I don't have any special setup for it currently).

 

[Howard]

I wouldn't want a projector in a room that couldn't be fully light-controlled. Even the 3000+ lumen ones become washed out very quickly with even a small amount of ambient light. In my dedicated room I can close the curtains (and blinds behind them) and block out pretty much all outside light even on a sunny day, but my lounge is always fairly light. If I didn't have the luxury of a dedicated room and instead had to have my home cinema setup in the lounge, I would opt for a large TV.

There is definitely a sense of occasion to be had when using a projector versus a similarly-sized TV, but you need a proper environment for it to work well. I love watching crystal clear and luscious 4K HDR content on my OLED but the projector is definitely more "fun".

 

[Firestar_3x]

Cheers, sounds like a great setup. I am doing my best to resist the temptation to make audio changes, but have you found the acoustic treatment as made a big difference and how are you finding Atmos?

Completely agree with you in terms of the seat away from the wall, it's slowly crept forward and is now about 1m from the back wall. Still not perfect but a lot better and has also meant i can centralise the sub behind the sofa.

The room and speaker placement is symmetrical which helped, noticed a reasonable difference placing insulation on the back and side walls behind the stage, corner bass traps made a difference. The room did measure better when treating the reflection points but hard to tell a difference in reality.

Atmos adds an extra level of emersion, which i could not go back from now, hopefully home D-box solutions will start coming down in price over the next few years, as it would be amazing to turn the front row into that.

 

[Abyss]

Decision made and thank you for all your advice. I'm going to spend up to £1k on a second hand projector as it seems better value for money and long term plan in a TV upgrade, likely to a 75" OLED. For now I am going to leave the audio as-is, but add the wiring for 7.2.4 as I'm decorating anyway and will future proof the room.

I'd been looking at the JVC X35 suggested above but can't find one I'm happy with currently. Does anyone have any thoughts on the Panasonic PT-AT6000E please? It was WhatHIFI's projector of the year back in 2013 priced at £2k-£3k and seems to be a strong contender. Does anyone know how much of a step up this will be versus my current Optoma HD200X and how far behind is it versus the current gen projectors like the Epson 9400 (other than the obvious of 1080p v pseudo 4k)?

 

[Abyss]

Hi all, firstly just wanted to say thanks for all your advice and secondly give an update on the route I went.

In the end I held fire upgrading the projector. It will get upgraded eventually but I'll defer it to later in the year.

I did however invest in:

• 4 speaker Atmos
• A new amp as I was weak and my current one didn't support 4 channel - Went with the Denon 4700H. At first I ordered 2 ceiling speakers, then decided it was silly to not install both sets now, then decided it was also silly to have 2 speakers I can't use
  
• A new TV - The 65" LG CX OLED. This also means the current 65" can go in the kitchen where I'm planning to make a built in unit
• Painting the room darker (blue walls, cream ceiling)
• Adding better lighting including replacing the hanging lights with ceiling spots for task lighting and LED coving (still WIP as the LED strips haven't arrived yet)
• Running all the cabling properly so I finally don't have a single cable running round the room
• Fully boxing in the projector screen

Still on the list is:

• New sofas once the shops open
• Fit the warm white LED to the coving
• Properly fit the RDG LED to the underside of the projector screen boxing
• Eventually replace the projector
• Tiling the fireplace surround as neither of us like the yellow and respraying the duct as gloss black looks odd
• Fitting blue painted false fronts to the radiators
• Fitting a white acoustic mesh front to the middle AV unit gap so it matches the doors

Whilst not quite finished I'm already really pleased with it. The TV is brilliant, the black levels on the projector are far better and the sound is in another league compares to the Sony 1080 and non atmos setup.

I'll update further once it's complete.

 

[aoaaron]

Hi all, firstly just wanted to say thanks for all your advice and secondly give an update on the route I went.

In the end I held fire upgrading the projector. It will get upgraded eventually but I'll defer it to later in the year.

I did however invest in:

• 4 speaker Atmos
• A new amp as I was weak and my current one didn't support 4 channel - Went with the Denon 4700H. At first I ordered 2 ceiling speakers, then decided it was silly to not install both sets now, then decided it was also silly to have 2 speakers I can't use
  
• A new TV - The 65" LG CX OLED. This also means the current 65" can go in the kitchen where I'm planning to make a built in unit
• Painting the room darker (blue walls, cream ceiling)
• Adding better lighting including replacing the hanging lights with ceiling spots for task lighting and LED coving (still WIP as the LED strips haven't arrived yet)
• Running all the cabling properly so I finally don't have a single cable running round the room
• Fully boxing in the projector screen

Still on the list is:

• New sofas once the shops open
• Fit the warm white LED to the coving
• Properly fit the RDG LED to the underside of the projector screen boxing
• Eventually replace the projector
• Tiling the fireplace surround as neither of us like the yellow and respraying the duct as gloss black looks odd
• Fitting blue painted false fronts to the radiators
• Fitting a white acoustic mesh front to the middle AV unit gap so it matches the doors

Whilst not quite finished I'm already really pleased with it. The TV is brilliant, the black levels on the projector are far better and the sound is in another league compares to the Sony 1080 and non atmos setup.

I'll update further once it's complete.

You have a massive room. IMO go Projector. TVs are for small rooms imo, people who can't afford to house a PJ & the sound gear associated with one. Yours looks massive. Sure, some people have big houses and don't have a projector.. that means nothing. PJ and home cinema gear is generally and enthusiast level tier and most people in the world aren't HT enthusiasts.

My 77'' GX looked good in a 3x3M room but in my 6Mx4.5m room, it looks awfully pathetic.


Projection choice

In your room, the despite the walls being dark blue, you have loads of ambient light. If you don't plan to paint your ceiling, buy an Epson 9300 if trying to stay around £1k. Tonemap HDR content to SDR with BT2020 colour space with MADVR or a Lumagen and use SDR for gaming. Epson should release the 9500 this year so its a bad time to buy the 9400. I would not get the X35 because you will need the lumen output and it will be crap for 4K obviously as it doesn't do it.


What is the width of your room in metres? And length? You have the potential for a truly cinematic image.




I am currently doing some experimentation in one of our spare lounges before we do a 10Mx14M extension this summer (or next if can't find a decently priced builder). In one lounge with VERY bad light control due to ceiling windows, I've managed to fairly adequately light control it. Painted ceiling dark grey, painted walls light grey, and plan to use MVEL22 curtains on the side walls for when its really cinema time. The front Projection stage (where all the gears and speakers are, will sit on MEVEL22 too.

Your dark blue wall colour is pretty awesome for minimising light reflections.



Display size comparison (and the hilarious sitting closer debate)

I went from a 77'' GX to my current projection image.

16:9 I can manage:
http://www.displaywars.com/160-inch-16x9-vs-77-inch-16x9

In cinemascope, I can manage:
http://www.displaywars.com/170-inch-235x1-vs-77-inch-16x9

If you take away the black bars from the 77'' OLED, it ends up looking like this on the comparison
http://www.displaywars.com/170-inch-235x1-vs-70-inch-235x1


From the photos of your room, I feel you'll be able to get bigger, better results.



Picture Quality
Put simply, it won't be as good as a flat panel, especially an OLED. But once you go as big as reaching a truly cinematic breath taking image, the projection has massive advantages re: entertainment, immersion, appreciation of detail, which a small TV can't touch.



Best method is have the best of both worlds but the issue with this is the screens are very expensive if you are going for a gigantic screen. I'd definitely buy an Epson 9300/9400 and try the maximum size image and see what you think!

 

[Warbie]

Hi all, firstly just wanted to say thanks for all your advice and secondly give an update on the route I went.

In the end I held fire upgrading the projector. It will get upgraded eventually but I'll defer it to later in the year.

I did however invest in:

• 4 speaker Atmos
• A new amp as I was weak and my current one didn't support 4 channel - Went with the Denon 4700H. At first I ordered 2 ceiling speakers, then decided it was silly to not install both sets now, then decided it was also silly to have 2 speakers I can't use
  
• A new TV - The 65" LG CX OLED. This also means the current 65" can go in the kitchen where I'm planning to make a built in unit
• Painting the room darker (blue walls, cream ceiling)
• Adding better lighting including replacing the hanging lights with ceiling spots for task lighting and LED coving (still WIP as the LED strips haven't arrived yet)
• Running all the cabling properly so I finally don't have a single cable running round the room
• Fully boxing in the projector screen

Still on the list is:

• New sofas once the shops open
• Fit the warm white LED to the coving
• Properly fit the RDG LED to the underside of the projector screen boxing
• Eventually replace the projector
• Tiling the fireplace surround as neither of us like the yellow and respraying the duct as gloss black looks odd
• Fitting blue painted false fronts to the radiators
• Fitting a white acoustic mesh front to the middle AV unit gap so it matches the doors

Whilst not quite finished I'm already really pleased with it. The TV is brilliant, the black levels on the projector are far better and the sound is in another league compares to the Sony 1080 and non atmos setup.

I'll update further once it's complete.

Looking good mate! Definitely enough space for a pj in addition to a TV, but i'd looking into doing somethign about the ceiling if that were the case.

 

[aoaaron]

I have a home theater system with a TV and a projector at home. If I watch a movie on a projector during the day, then I have to cover the windows with curtains. But I read that there are special models of projectors that allow you to watch movies comfortably even in daylight.

Special screens like ALR ones will allow you to do this.

I keep my eye out and buy whichever’s ones I can secondhand as they are expensive brand new.

managed to pick up a 95’’ and 110’’ electric draper react alr 3.0s for under 1k for both so far

 

[Abyss]

You have a massive room. IMO go Projector. TVs are for small rooms imo, people who can't afford to house a PJ & the sound gear associated with one. Yours looks massive. Sure, some people have big houses and don't have a projector.. that means nothing. PJ and home cinema gear is generally and enthusiast level tier and most people in the world aren't HT enthusiasts.

My 77'' GX looked good in a 3x3M room but in my 6Mx4.5m room, it looks awfully pathetic.


Projection choice

In your room, the despite the walls being dark blue, you have loads of ambient light. If you don't plan to paint your ceiling, buy an Epson 9300 if trying to stay around £1k. Tonemap HDR content to SDR with BT2020 colour space with MADVR or a Lumagen and use SDR for gaming. Epson should release the 9500 this year so its a bad time to buy the 9400. I would not get the X35 because you will need the lumen output and it will be crap for 4K obviously as it doesn't do it.


What is the width of your room in metres? And length? You have the potential for a truly cinematic image.




I am currently doing some experimentation in one of our spare lounges before we do a 10Mx14M extension this summer (or next if can't find a decently priced builder). In one lounge with VERY bad light control due to ceiling windows, I've managed to fairly adequately light control it. Painted ceiling dark grey, painted walls light grey, and plan to use MVEL22 curtains on the side walls for when its really cinema time. The front Projection stage (where all the gears and speakers are, will sit on MEVEL22 too.

Your dark blue wall colour is pretty awesome for minimising light reflections.



Display size comparison (and the hilarious sitting closer debate)

I went from a 77'' GX to my current projection image.

16:9 I can manage:
http://www.displaywars.com/160-inch-16x9-vs-77-inch-16x9

In cinemascope, I can manage:
http://www.displaywars.com/170-inch-235x1-vs-77-inch-16x9

If you take away the black bars from the 77'' OLED, it ends up looking like this on the comparison
http://www.displaywars.com/170-inch-235x1-vs-70-inch-235x1


From the photos of your room, I feel you'll be able to get bigger, better results.



Picture Quality
Put simply, it won't be as good as a flat panel, especially an OLED. But once you go as big as reaching a truly cinematic breath taking image, the projection has massive advantages re: entertainment, immersion, appreciation of detail, which a small TV can't touch.



Best method is have the best of both worlds but the issue with this is the screens are very expensive if you are going for a gigantic screen. I'd definitely buy an Epson 9300/9400 and try the maximum size image and see what you think!

Sorry for the slow reply everyonem, life has been a bit manic!

Cheers for all the advice aoaaron. The living room is about 3.6m by 5.4m. The current screen from memory is about 120 inches. Painting the walls blue has made a huge difference to the projector, I did deliberate going blue with the ceiling aswell but went for a cream in the end which has helped whilst keeping some contrast when it's used as a living room. Colour scheme is below:

I will definitely be upgrading the projector at some point, but will probably wait until true 4k projectors are slightly cheaper. This is however a quick phone snapshot of what the image now looks like with the current projector:

The next thing I need to look at is adding shutters or similar to the windows. It's fine currently as we only watch films when it's dark but as we get into summer I doubt the current blackout curtains will do enough to prevent light spilling round them.