UEFA Champions & Europa League Football Thread ** spoilers ** [5th - 7th November 2024]

[Calpol]

Says who? Ten Hag started Amad plenty, and RvN has ignored him for two matches. Results are one thing but you have to look at the performances too. Tonight was no better than the draw vs Twente, PAOK just missed an easier chance than the one Twente scored and Amad pulled out a piece of magic at the end. It wasn't Ruud that made any difference.

Says me, based on the evidence of the last 2 months.
I don't know why people are expecting so much from Ruud. Frankly its ridiculous. He's stepped into a difficult situation and has steadied the ship. Yes the football still stinks but it has for 18 months and that is something that lies at EtH's door. If Ruud all of a sudden decides to experiment for his four games we could be out of the league cup, Europa league and 6 points worse off in the league. If he wins on Sunday then we can't ask for more from him. You can't rewire this crappy team over night especially when you know you aren't likely going to be there and I remind you that we haven't won in Europe for a year!

 

[Raymond Lin]

RvN isn't there to change United. He is just to keep the seat warm for the next guy and try not do any worse than ETH. For that he is doing above the brief. You can't expect the same coaching staff, same players all of the sudden to start playing differently. The mentality and culture at the club are still the same I expect.

 

[Calpol]

Classy and honest interview from RVN.

 

[uscool]

I'm just glad Ruud wasn't put in charge till end of the season , gotta give them credit how quickly they got the new manager in

 

[Shamikebab]

RvN isn't there to change United. He is just to keep the seat warm for the next guy and try not do any worse than ETH. For that he is doing above the brief. You can't expect the same coaching staff, same players all of the sudden to start playing differently. The mentality and culture at the club are still the same I expect.

Of course you can lol, if it's nothing to do with the manager then why even change him? Plenty of managers have come in and changed things without getting a transfer window.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Of course you can lol, if it's nothing to do with the manager then why even change him? Plenty of managers have come in and changed things without getting a transfer window.

You forgot 1 important point.

Time.

RvN doesn't have the luxury of time. Do you really expect him, using the same players, and coaching staff to suddenly turn this team into Barcelona in a week?

 

[Calpol]

Of course you can lol, if it's nothing to do with the manager then why even change him? Plenty of managers have come in and changed things without getting a transfer window.

He has no mandate beyond Sunday! He had 1 day in role before they more or less announced Amorim.

 

[Shamikebab]

You know who had the same amount of time? Carrick. He changed us far more and had us playing far better then went onto a good job. RvN is far more experienced as a manager than him and has showed far less.

 

[Robbo]

I don’t think there’s been much of a change in performances but ultimately RvN has won two games and drawn a difficult one, he’s unbeaten. It’s more that ETH and the squad were in a really dark place and that’s improved a bit over the past week or so.

Our first win in Europe for something like 380 days, just ridiculous.

 

[fez]

He's stepped into a difficult situation and has steadied the ship.

I think this is where we differ. Perhaps Shami agrees here. He hasn't done anything really. Thats the issue. We had literally half the goals our xG suggests we should have in the league this season. If we had scored those and the frankly ridiculous WHU penalty wasn't given we would be in a very different place right now and EtH would probably still be in a job. He shouldn't have been but he would have been. We scraped past a PAOK side last night who were awful. It took what looked like a mis-headed ball back across goal for the first goal and a massive lucky deflection for the second.

I think that we are playing no better and the only difference is that we are getting a little bit of luck that EtH didn't get this season.

 

[adam cool dude]

You know who had the same amount of time? Carrick. He changed us far more and had us playing far better then went onto a good job. RvN is far more experienced as a manager than him and has showed far less.

Same with Ole in his first few games we played fantastic.

 

[mid_gen]

Garnacho continues to not impress as a starter. I would start Rashford and bring Nacho on as a sub.

When's Mainoo back?

 

[fez]

On a slightly different note, did anyone see the penalty Chelsea got last night. I don't think I have seen many worse decisions. Especially considering they were 7-0 down at this point.

 

[Shamikebab]

If that is a pen we should have had 3 last night lol

 

[sigma]

I think this is where we differ. Perhaps Shami agrees here. He hasn't done anything really. Thats the issue. We had literally half the goals our xG suggests we should have in the league this season. If we had scored those and the frankly ridiculous WHU penalty wasn't given we would be in a very different place right now and EtH would probably still be in a job. He shouldn't have been but he would have been. We scraped past a PAOK side last night who were awful. It took what looked like a mis-headed ball back across goal for the first goal and a massive lucky deflection for the second.

I think that we are playing no better and the only difference is that we are getting a little bit of luck that EtH didn't get this season.

We'll see with Amorim just how much of it is the manager or the players. Nowhere to hide now.

 

[adam cool dude]

Garnacho continues to not impress as a starter. I would start Rashford and bring Nacho on as a sub.

When's Mainoo back?

Players like Garnacho shouldn't even be starting though. Unless you are someone like Wayne Rooney who was a generational talent.

Lack of competition for places doesn't help either.

 

[fez]

We'll see with Amorim just how much of it is the manager or the players. Nowhere to hide now.

I think its a mixture of both but in my view, a manager has to be able to instruct his player and get buy in from them and for that to happen, they have to see results on the pitch. Fans might "trust the process" for a year or two but players will want to see that their efforts are showing signs of moving the team in the right direction fairly quickly.

These players are not as technically bad as they looked last night and have done for a while. The top players in the top teams are exceptional at retaining the ball, picking hard passes, resisting pressure etc but the bread and butter of football is tactics. Not having to make slide rule passes to unlock defences all the time. Not having to do exceptional things to progress the ball or move up the pitch. The best teams under the best managers are playing without having to think that much. They know what they should be doing most of the time and they know what their teammates will be doing. United players are making it up from moment to moment and you can't have 11 players making up their own plan for a game.

They said football isn't as exciting as it used to be because the "magicians" aren't as common these days and thats because the team is king. Tactics are king. One man does not a team make. RM are looking poorer this season because they have tried to shoehorn in too many players who don't complement each other. Poor old Mbappe has gone from one unbalanced side to another.