UEFA Champions League/Europa League 15/16/17 Feb *** Spoilers ***

[jakeke]

But now with that naivety and underestimation gone, will their upped game make a significant difference. If every Arsenal player puts in a man of the match performance are they equal/better/worse than a Barcelona if every Barcelona player puts in a man of the match performance.

Its going to be a very interesting second leg, thats for sure.

Indeed, they'll be a little wiser I think, thankfully they're similar to Arsenal in the way that they won't change their game much really. As you say, it's incredibly interesting now and set up perfectly (although 2 - 0 to Arsenal would have been nicer to take into the second leg)

 

[Yas786]

Of course the worry there is, if they were expecting an easy win, maybe they were only playing in 2nd gear. Maybe this time, now knowing its not an easy win they will move through the gears and really turn it on.

I suppose its like last season when they played us and walked away with a 2-2 draw...i admit that they did not look all that good the other night especially Messi...but thats the key, mark him out or defend against him well enough that hes rendered useless...the problem being is whether or not we can do the same in the 2nd leg at the nou camp....im hoping we can and im much more confident that we can. But on the other hand we might get a right good spanking at their hands in the 2nd leg like last season when Messi literally tore us apart and bagged 4 goals....hopefully it wont happen.

But they definitely would be silly or naive to take us lightly again....im quietly confident that we can spring a major upset on them again as long as we play to our strengths and having RVP back fully fit and scoring goals gives us the confidence that we could very well beat them on home soil.

Seriously though am looking forward to the 2nd leg...if anything it will be another lovely game of football.

 

[Greenlizard0]

So whats the general consensus now , that Arsenal have got Barcelona sussed out now and know that all they need to do is attack in numbers and Barcelonas defense will give way and Arsenal will win, or that Barcelona are still the better team and ultimately will beat Arsenal at the NC and win?

We had them sussed before Wed night and managed to pull it off, nothing's really changed but it simply is a case of stopping them score early, and then if possible defending till the end or scoring ourselves. Big advantage that there's no Puyol and Pique. And that we'll have Song back, though in all honesty bar one moment, Eboue did fine.

Simple on paper.

But now with that naivety and underestimation gone, will their upped game make a significant difference. If every Arsenal player puts in a man of the match performance are they equal/better/worse than a Barcelona if every Barcelona player puts in a man of the match performance.

Its going to be a very interesting second leg, thats for sure.

That's the thing as said above, stop them scoring during their peak 60-75 minutes and we've got every chance. However if they fancy hitting the target then we'll not get through. No mistakes.

It's a bit odd though, as said earlier on in this thread I've no fear of Arsenal having a bloody good go at Barca. It's, should we progress, facing the other English sides later on in the competition that's concerning. We've a poor record against those around us in recent seasons both domestically and in Europe.

When as serious underdogs we beat Madrid and Juve in 2006, we used that as a springboard to get to the final. However in 2008 we managed to beat the holders AC Milan and then petered out against Liverpool.

Can't help think, yes it's early days, but what's the point of an amazing performance this early on?

 

[HangTime]

Well, it's just that there are games at the start of the season where we played:

Almunia; Clichy, Vermaelen, Koscielny, Sagna; Song, Diaby, Fabregas; Arshavin, RvP, Walcott.

Right now, that's not what you'd call our first XI, as you'd expect Fabianski in goal, Djourou at the back, Wilshere in midfield, and Nasri somewhere. But at the time, I'd say that would pretty much have been Wenger's selection even with everyone fit. Hence why I questioned what you classed as our best XI.

I strongly disagree, Nasri was in our first choice XI this season by my definition, and I would be extremely surprised if Wenger (absolutely flabbergasted in fact) didn't think the same based on his performances in pre-season. Nasri started our first game of the season. He then got injured before the second game of the season, so it's hardly surprising he was out of the side. As soon as he was fit again, he was back in the side.

In fact if we look at the games played, the only game I can find where we had that lineup you quoted was the Blackburn game on 28th August, when Nasri was injured.

I'm convinced we haven't been able to field our first choice XI (at least, my first choice XI, and I'm not being awkward in terms of deliberately choosing players that were injured at a given time for it) for several years (I say 4 years, but it may be longer, perhaps a little less).

 

[Somnambulist]

I think we'll go out, but unlike last time we have a better chance of progressing having a one goal lead, and unless something goes horribly wrong over the next week or two, a much stronger starting XI and bench compared to last year. The squad and bench for the Nou match was depressing, I mean you had Denilson, Diaby AND Rosicky on the field at the same time (but interestingly still managed one goal lol).

Should give a better account of ourselves this time round. A win or score draw would be delightful, but unless Barca enter some sort of dip in form over the next couple of weeks then I'd expect them to win.

 

[dante6491]

In all honesty I think, baring any more injuries, the Arsenal side can only be stronger by the second leg. We will have Sagna back at right back, whilst Vermaelen may be fit. I would hope that either he or Kos goes to left back, because, despite his assist in the first goal, (for both teams), Clichy hasn't played well for a couple of seasons. Or should I say, to his best when he was comparable to Cole, who he had to replace.

Barcelona will only be weaker since Pique is suspended. Hopefully Puyol will still be injured and it might be a completely different match.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

In all honesty I think, baring any more injuries, the Arsenal side can only be stronger by the second leg. We will have Sagna back at right back, whilst Vermaelen may be fit. I would hope that either he or Kos goes to left back, because, despite his assist in the first goal, (for both teams), Clichy hasn't played well for a couple of seasons. Or should I say, to his best when he was comparable to Cole, who he had to replace.

Barcelona will only be weaker since Pique is suspended. Hopefully Puyol will still be injured and it might be a completely different match.

barcelona seem to be lacking a decent partner for villa, pedro is okay against crap teams, but someone like torres would have been much better for champions league. they rely too much on villa and messi to get the goals and messi was playing very deep at times, so he only had a few chances.

song should have been sent off, i dont know how many times, i counted at least 7 fouls given away in the first half after he was on a yellow. fair enough they were not that bad but to consistently foul like that, just broke up barcelona's style of play.

also messi is playing far too deep at times, suggesting that iniesta and xavi sometimes cannot get the job done.

their team is certainly not perfect and if you can continuously hack them, they dont like it. they complain a lot in la liga and tackling gets far harsher decisions over there. they arent used to being bullied.

arsenal have a good chance, but barcelona could have easily won had their players managed to stay onside a lot of the time and finish all the 1 on 1 chances they missed.

van persies goal was a hit and hope, they are lucky valdes is so overated and hasn't been replaced and let it in. granted the second goal was very good.

if mascherano had been playing, and breaking arsenal's legs like song was to barca, then it would have made for a better game.

 

[Tummy]

hahaha "best way to stop Barca playing football?" "kick 'em", you can hack any team in the World and they won't like it such a barbaric way to compete on a football pitch.

Valdes isn't over rated, I think he's under rated, as he seems to get quite a bit of stick, I think he's probably being the best or at least as good as any other Keeper in Spain in the last few seasons.

Pedro is a good player, he fits the system well and there is a really good article about him by Sid Lowe that's worth a read I don't think Torres would get in ahead of anyone in the Barca side in all honestly, he's off form and doesn't suit them.

I really don't like the idea that you have to bully or "hack" Barca to stop them, Inter didn't, you just need to be organised and be good on the counter, much like Arsenal were although I think they could have organised a bit better.

Puyol should be back for the game and iirc, Barca have less games to play in the gap between legs. I also thought bar playing Villa onside Clichy had a really good game.

 

[HangTime]

Personally I thought Koscielny played well although possibly could have the finger of suspicion pointed at him for one of the goals. I really don't understand why people bash him, 90% of the time when I watch him he plays well, I think the trouble is that people like to tar him with the same brush as Squilacci as they signed at the same time, who has been a genuine flop. He puts in a lot of good tackles and also has an eye for a pass, the only question mark really is whether sometimes his positional sense is lacking in terms of letting people run beyond him, but one would hope this is something he will learn over the coming year once Vermaelen is back alongside him.

 

[atpbx]

Pedro is a good player, he fits the system well and there is a really good article about him by Sid Lowe that's worth a read I don't think Torres would get in ahead of anyone in the Barca side in all honestly, he's off form and doesn't suit them.

I thought Pedro played like someone who had never seen a football before wednesday night, he was shocking.

would have been interesting to see what would have happened had the perfectly good Messi goal been given and Song had been sent off like he should have been.
I recall Chelsea going to the Nou Camp with a 3-0 nill lead or something a few years back and being absolutely mullered when the went out there.

 

[Garido]

As much as I love Arsenal, I'm not entirely sure we're in prime position. They have an away goal, a strong reputation for playing well at home.

I rate our (Arsenal's) chances at 40 (we go through)/60 (barca)

What do you guys?

PS: Are you sure Puyol is out? I have a feeling he may come back.

 

[Tummy]

I thought Pedro played like someone who had never seen a football before wednesday night, he was shocking.

would have been interesting to see what would have happened had the perfectly good Messi goal been given and Song had been sent off like he should have been.
I recall Chelsea going to the Nou Camp with a 3-0 nill lead or something a few years back and being absolutely mullered when the went out there.

I don't think he was that bad, I take your point though he wasn't anywhere near his best but neither were Messi and I thought Iniesta looked a little "meh" as well. Maxwell did "alright" but clearly struggles against pace.

And Arsenal get Kos? was it send off for that Pen lets not forget that

 

[K1LLSW1TCH]

It's still 50/50 imo. If they score first then it is by no means over, last year with a considerably weaker team we took the lead and I think our team has really come along in the past 12 months or so especially certain individuals like Nasri and Wilshere who are still learning the game and have really improved greatly. I think now that we've got Szczesny playing until at least the end of the season it gives our defence confidence and allows them to relax knowing that there's a guy between the posts who is 100% confident and sure of his abilities and has that presence and command of the area, something that I think Fabianski doesn't have and that I know Almunia has never had. I think that Szczesny could really be our best 'keeper since Seaman.

Sagna will be back in defence too which will be a huge bonus as from what I can remember Eboue got boned pretty much every time Barca came down that side, he was pretty terrible and going forward he wasn't much better, the guy is dead wood and needs to be shipped out along with a few others, Denilson and Diaby spring to mind. Not sure if I would start Theo in the second leg, I'd be inclined to start with a front 3 of RVP, Bendtner and Arshavin and then bring Theo on later in the game when Maxwell is already starting to tire. We've got an amazing chance of going through, and I think if we do go through then we can go all the way, but it's just too close to call, Barcelona are an amazing team who play amazing football and whatever the result it's gonna be an awesome game to watch. Let's just hope the officials have a good game as well.

 

[Tummy]

Barca are a force of nature at home though

I like Arsenal and Barca, they both play football the right way imho. Arsenal looked really good playing a counter attacking game in the first leg, I'd say they were also very lucky not to be 3 down and have two players sent off

Arsenal won't get the rub of the green away at Barca and I doubt they'll be able to play quite like they did at home, BUT they can still play a pacey counter attacking game and it could work.

 

[K1LLSW1TCH]

Barca are a force of nature at home though

I like Arsenal and Barca, they both play football the right way imho. Arsenal looked really good playing a counter attacking game in the first leg, I'd say they were also very lucky not to be 3 down and have two players sent off

Arsenal won't get the rub of the green away at Barca and I doubt they'll be able to play quite like they did at home, BUT they can still play a pacey counter attacking game and it could work.

I think we'll simply have to sit back a little bit deeper than we did at home and hit Barca on the break, when we counter attacked at the Emirates the Barca defence looked shaky at best. Not saying try and do a full on Mourinho style strategy because we don't have those types of players and we aren't that type of team, we can beat them playing how we play, but I think we'll need to absorb more pressure than we normally do and then try and break away quickly. Defence doesn't seem to be their strongpoint and like DM said, it's probably because they are horrifically out of form defensively, the back 4 usually have bugger all to do in La Liga.

As for playing and winning at the Nou Camp, I saw Hercules beat Barcelona this year, I can't remember if that was in Barca or not though?

 

[Tummy]

Yup, I also really do think Barca will dominate a lot more.

I said from the off that Arsenal looked lethal on the counter and really good going forward, I also think they attacked in numbers which isn't something Barca know how to deal with well, as most teams adopt the "Chelsea way" which is a 9 defenders and one up top formation.

 

[K1LLSW1TCH]

Yup, I also really do think Barca will dominate a lot more.

I said from the off that Arsenal looked lethal on the counter and really good going forward, I also think they attacked in numbers which isn't something Barca know how to deal with well, as most teams adopt the "Chelsea way" which is a 9 defenders and one up top formation.

Yeah the Arshavin goal was a bit like that. When Nasri was in the box I think the Arsenal attackers outnumbered the Barcelona defence by that point, but like I was saying, they aren't unstoppable, or unbeatable at home, we can do it but Wenger really needs to get the tactics spot on, and the players need to give absolutely everything. I think if the ref has a bad game like he did the other day then we could easily lose. If Song committed the same fouls he did the other day, only in Barcelona then he'd have been sent off no doubt, with the extra pressure from the crowd and stuff, he needs to stop making ridiculous tackles in areas of the pitch where such tackles need not be made.

It's like DM said, they aren't even dangerous tackles, they're just stupid ones like sticking a leg out and tripping a player when they are 40 yards from goal, with 4 defenders in front of them. Needs to sort it out and I'm still not 100% on what I think of him, Wilshere does that job so much better but I would hate to see Wilshere be stuck in that role when he has so much more to offer up front, in and around the box. I can't believe Crapello likened him to Makelele, great player in his day but Wilshere is not just a defensive player, we saw him stand out in the midfield against players like Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets, he's way more than just another defensive midfielder, maybe he's even a young English Fabregas.

 

[Tummy]

I agree about Song. He seems to offer very little to the Arsenal side imho, and he offered very little against Barca. He's not good enough or rather I don't think he has the discipline to be a holding midfielder. Masch (who's at Barca) would have been a great buy for Arsenal.

Wilshire is far too good to be forced in to a role that quite frankly doesn't suit him. Crapello was just stupid in saying that and playing him like that, I don't think he's a deep lying playmaker either, I think he's more of a Iniesta type player who looks to go forward and make things happen.

Also, I wasn't sure if Arshavin was going to keep the ball in the stadium let alone score when he hit that he's been fairly dismal as of late.

Pace hurts Barca, would it not be wise to just soak them up? and try and avoid letting a few in and then chuck on the likes of Theo and Bender (whom I thought did very well for a change when he came on) to really test the Barca defence late on?

 

[K1LLSW1TCH]

The thing about Arshavin is that even when he is perceived to be playing poorly he still manages to make a positive contribution to the game. I think that a lot of the time because he doesn't sprint up and down the pitch for 90 minutes that fans get on his back a bit when they don't see him putting as much effort in as some of our other players. That said though he's been an assist machine so far and that finish on Wednesday was sublime.

Anyways I'm off to bed.

 

[Greenlizard0]

I'm just surprised he scored. How many times in recent months has he skied a first time shot? Almost every time, Barca and Brum Everton (?) excluded.

He still can be really good going forward, the trouble is I think he's learnt his trade in a 442 and hasn't changed. I don't think he realises just how much work he needs to do or that our league is like that.