UEFA Champions League/Europa League ** Spoilers ** [16/17/18 September 2014]

BaZ87 said:
I think you're looking at this the wrong way.

Look at what Rodgers said re Moreno with City's 3rd goal. Rodgers was critical of Moreno for not pushing higher up the pitch and closing Navas down. Rodgers wants his fullbacks to be aggressive and if they're going to play like that you have to accept that from time to time teams will work their way around them and they'll get caught out. It's an occupational hazard. The fact that Manquillo (and Moreno down the left) are able to get forward but also able to recover is a huge positive. It's not by accident that the 2 fullbacks we've signed this summer both defend on the front foot, good in one on one's and have the pace and energy to recover.

As he gains a bit more experience and when we're playing better opposition, I'm sure he'll pick and choose when he needs to push forward or press high up the pitch and when he needs to sit in.
Click to expand...

It's not that he's out of position too often - as you say, if you want your full backs to push on, this will happen. The issue is that I don't think that he is a particularly good defender when he is in the right place. People get past him, and he hasn't yet been shown up as he's fast.
 
Some 'interesting' opinions on our team right now in here

Ludo were decent, pleased for Mario but him as a stationary target alone is woeful and Sterling should be central as shown from when Coutinho went off.

Sakho scares the crap out of me, especially when he tries to control a long ball and it just bounces off his thigh...

Not sure how there wasn't a foul called on sterling before their goal, thankfully Stevie was as clutch as ever
 
drunkenmaster said:
Thing that bugs me is despite how little we created and despite how we were getting caught with fullbacks too far forward, the midfield caught up field, at no stage did we pull the back four in line, tighten it, stop pushing the fullbacks forward. We kept trying the Barcelona style fullbacks forward, CB's split and Arteta dropping deep often between them. Why, we suck when we do that, the fullbacks even at full strength don't offer enough going forward to be worth having them so far up the field so often.

A ridiculous number of our goals conceded come through missing fullbacks... but in games where the fullbacks produce next to nothing offensively anyway.

Arteta was shocking throughout, awful defensively and we kept again like Barca tried to play out through Arteta even though his passing was dire in this game also. Why not switch, bring the cb's tighter, push Arteta into midfield, bring Ramsey/Wilshere in line to pack that midfield and bring them a bit deeper, stop the fullbacks getting so far forward and trying to play more directly, which would actually suit faster players like Welbeck and Sanchez.

Same crap over and over, Wenger has horrible tactics against bigger teams, our fullbacks well, since CLichy left, have been woeful. Our lack of defensive cover is an issue, our lack of any truly decent defensive midfielder has been hurting us since Gilberto left FFS.

The longer term issues with the squad have been around for years and ignored, the shorter term issues like poor performance in this game weren't fixed either. There was no attempt at all to change our shape tactically, to try and shore up the defence and tighten the game. If we kept Dortmund to limited chances for 20 minutes it would change the game, we may have had a chance to push on from there, other teams do this. Something clearly not working you change tactic and then maybe change it again. You have the chance to take the momentum out of the opposition before trying again. But nothing, no change in tactics and even in the dying minutes we were conceding the same types of chances for the same reasons.

This is all about Wenger, long term he can't identify where we really need players, he isn't identifying the right players to buy any more and tactically he's been inept for years.
Click to expand...

You're spot on about the fullbacks. They offered nothing and left the central two trying to deal with three runners and they whole width of the pitch
 
CliffyG said:
Side note on the ref, what was he wearing, almost the same colour as Arsenal shirts. On top of that lots of bizarre decisions not least Ozil's yellow.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that was horrible. Could see a few Arsenal players try to pass to him and luckily someone was switched on behind him to get on the end of it so it didn't look too bad.
 
I would like to know, how Arteta managed to slide his way in to club captaincy over Mertesacker. Per is an infinitely better leader who is way more likely to yell at you and get you doing your ****** job. Not to mention that Arteta has been woeful for the past two seasons after a moderately decent first season. Other than Flamini we have no one to play that defensive midfield role and Flamini can't play every week. Why we didn't sign someone to fill that void in the summer is beyond me.

Felt sorry for Bellerin in the first half, he was a little better in the second but to be thrown in the deep-end like that on your debut. He looked rushed and nervous from the first whistle but I think he should be a decent player for the future.

Welbeck showed he can get into good positions so if he can just work on that accuracy then it will be nice to see, still wish we actually bought someone who could finish, or even just a loan would do.

We are once again left exceptionally short at the back because of injuries and this is an area that should have been strengthened. We were linked with Papastathopoulos and after his performance yesterday, we really should have done more to get him. Wenger doesn't seem to think that you should pay good money for defenders which is infuriating.

We are told that Arsenal can now compete financially with the top teams in the league which is nice to know except we pay fortunes on great attacking players and leave our defence extremely weak.
 
While we were down to effectively a reserve due to injuries, we shouldn't focus on that as a problem, not least because it was really only one player missing, maybe you could count Giroud as well though he's not any better than Welbeck. Gibbs is first team, he was god awful, Arteta is first team, he was god awful. Bellarin wasn't great but we could have been in a position where he was less inexperienced by actually giving him game time in the past year. It's Wenger's fault that the player was so inexperienced because he has for years and years now refused to rotate, refused to give youth players anything other than maybe one cup game a year.

Bellarin and Gibbs were also sold out by Wenger's woeful tactical system in which the fullbacks constantly run past the half way line... even if there is little chance they will be involved in an attack. exceptionally few teams end up in a position where both fullbacks effectively get into the final third. If the attack is going up the left wing the left back might get involved but the right back will stay deeper and be ready to head back if the opposition counter attack. Arsenal consistently get caught on the counter with both fullbacks woefully out of position. This again is a choice by Wenger, a style of system he chooses to implement and most importantly, one that doesn't work well offensively. Why risk the defence when the offence is barely being helped by their presence?

If you insist on running that system you have to look at Gibbs/Monreal and say they aren't ruddy good enough defensively or offensively.

If everyone was fit last night, we'd still have been poor in fullback positions, we'd still have had not good enough defensive midfielders, our tactical system wouldn't have worked well and our strikers wouldn't be good enough. Likewise Sanchez/Ozil would still have been dire.

Wenger is the main problem Arsenal have, has been for 8 years, won't improve significantly as a team till he's gone.
 
drunkenmaster said:
Wenger is the main problem Arsenal have, has been for 8 years, won't improve significantly as a team till he's gone.
Click to expand...

Be careful what you wish for. I think for years United fans were quietly bothered with some of Fergie's tactics and transfer market policies but as success invariably followed it was kept under the carpet.

Then when he left :eek:... it's hardly ever going to be rosy when a long term manager like Ferguson or Wenger leaves. It may improve in the medium term but are you really wanting to force that risk?
 
Pigeon_Killer said:
1-1

Lovren's appalling, absolutely ****ing appalling. How many goals has his defending cost us already?
Click to expand...

I'm going to go ahead and say, every goal we've conceded this season.

Lovren seems to be causing us issues because he is the "leader" in the defense, however he's is constantly the one allowing himself to be pulled out of position or coming across into Sakho/Skrtel's defensive "zone".
 
He's certainly not playing like a defender who's known for his composure on the ball. I'm sure he's just eager to please and is trying too hard but he's a big concern at the moment. We finally sort out our problems at fullback and now have a bigger one through the centre :(
 
Arsenal was not that bad as people make it out. we had 4 great chances to score and should have got a couple of goals at least.

Dispite dortmound have 24 shots on goal. Most were wide off the mark/long range pointless shots.

The first goal Dortmound scored was down to that flukey touch as the dortmound player tried to do a cutback but failed and the ball bubbled infront of him.

2nd goal was good. Great finish and great pass to setup the player.
 
drunkenmaster said:
Thing that bugs me is despite how little we created and despite how we were getting caught with fullbacks too far forward, the midfield caught up field, at no stage did we pull the back four in line, tighten it, stop pushing the fullbacks forward. We kept trying the Barcelona style fullbacks forward, CB's split and Arteta dropping deep often between them. Why, we suck when we do that, the fullbacks even at full strength don't offer enough going forward to be worth having them so far up the field so often.

A ridiculous number of our goals conceded come through missing fullbacks... but in games where the fullbacks produce next to nothing offensively anyway.

Arteta was shocking throughout, awful defensively and we kept again like Barca tried to play out through Arteta even though his passing was dire in this game also. Why not switch, bring the cb's tighter, push Arteta into midfield, bring Ramsey/Wilshere in line to pack that midfield and bring them a bit deeper, stop the fullbacks getting so far forward and trying to play more directly, which would actually suit faster players like Welbeck and Sanchez.

Same crap over and over, Wenger has horrible tactics against bigger teams, our fullbacks well, since CLichy left, have been woeful. Our lack of defensive cover is an issue, our lack of any truly decent defensive midfielder has been hurting us since Gilberto left FFS.

The longer term issues with the squad have been around for years and ignored, the shorter term issues like poor performance in this game weren't fixed either. There was no attempt at all to change our shape tactically, to try and shore up the defence and tighten the game. If we kept Dortmund to limited chances for 20 minutes it would change the game, we may have had a chance to push on from there, other teams do this. Something clearly not working you change tactic and then maybe change it again. You have the chance to take the momentum out of the opposition before trying again. But nothing, no change in tactics and even in the dying minutes we were conceding the same types of chances for the same reasons.

This is all about Wenger, long term he can't identify where we really need players, he isn't identifying the right players to buy any more and tactically he's been inept for years.
Click to expand...

wenger out?

Well u cant blame wenger for all the missplaced passes and lack of desire from the arsenal side or wellbeck missing sitters now can u?
 
jonneymendoza said:
Arsenal was not that bad as people make it out. we had 4 great chances to score and should have got a couple of goals at least.

Dispite dortmound have 24 shots on goal. Most were wide off the mark/long range pointless shots.
Click to expand...

Did you eat your brain for breakfast this morning?

We had 4 chances to score but didn't! Dortmund had 24 shots 7 of which on target, one rattled the cross-bar and we got overrun and completely humiliated for 90 minutes. There wasn't even a 10 minute period in that game that I felt comfortable watching as an Arsenal fan. I think that is one of the worse performances I have ever seen Arsenal put on. At least we scored two when we conceded 8 v Utd.
 
jonneymendoza said:
wenger out?

Well u cant blame wenger for all the missplaced passes and lack of desire from the arsenal side or wellbeck missing sitters now can u?
Click to expand...

Yes I can, he bought Ozil who has played like this for 4 years, he bought Sanchez and is trying to play what is a one touch and goal finisher as a playmaker, something he's poor at. He refused to buy a DM and played Arteta despite his obvious decline in the past 2 years, he played one crap first team fullback and one young player in his first game. The whole team was nervous and Ozil/Sanchez and co being woeful when under pressure is something known.

Tactical choice, team choice, transfer policy, youth policy are all the reasons we lost that game, all directly Wenger's responsibility.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom