UEFA Champions League/Europa League ** Spoilers ** [29/30 September - 1 October 2015]

Tummy said:
There is such a lack of perspective in modern football, it is all about the here and now.
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Not at all. There's nothing to suggest those players would have been able to play at the pace of todays game with anything like the skill. Everything is shortened, decision time, precision and time to place a shot when moving at the speed Ronaldo does. He does that while busting the stats of those that went before him. Best played at walking pace in comparison.

I'm pretty sure if it was the other way around and Ronaldo got to play at their pace the issue wouldn't be as big. By the same token you think it's about the here and now, other's can't let go of the past.

I doubt I will ever see anyone as good in my lifetime and I think Real Madrid will really struggle after he's gone because everyone will be in his shadow. They hate on players for fun, let alone one that cost's them a fortune and can't score like Ronaldo can.
 
All fantastic players, all world class and all capable of the sublime. What sets Messi and Ronaldo apart is they're both capable of the sublime but produce it every single game season after season.
 
Those players were greats no doubt, but the stats speak for themselves really. Messi and Ronaldo are probably the most effective, brilliant players ever.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Not at all. There's nothing to suggest those players would have been able to play at the pace of todays game with anything like the skill. Everything is shortened, decision time, precision and time to place a shot when moving at the speed Ronaldo does. He does that while busting the stats of those that went before him. Best played at walking pace in comparison.

I'm pretty sure if it was the other way around and Ronaldo got to play at their pace the issue wouldn't be as big. By the same token you think it's about the here and now, other's can't let go of the past.

I doubt I will ever see anyone as good in my lifetime and I think Real Madrid will really struggle after he's gone because everyone will be in his shadow. They hate on players for fun, let alone one that cost's them a fortune and can't score like Ronaldo can.
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I totally disagree. I think many of those players listed would 'rival' the elite players of now on ability. Given them all similar levels of fitness and the access to the sports science, it would be incredible to see these players play now. English football is played a such breakneck speed (to the detriment of technical proficiency), whereas football is slightly slower in Europe, the European Champions League and International football.

Football most definitely is about the here and now, instant gratification, absolutely certain in English football where the art of coaching is in decline, and the art of buying ready made replacements is the norm.

Messi is unbelievable. Ronaldo is a player that is the product of modern football, he is physically incredible.
 
Its impossible to compare between eras because past players would be better with modern training, diet etc. There is also the argument that they wouldn't perhaps have reached the levels required of the top players of today though. Players that look amazing at a slightly lower level look crap in the big leagues sometimes because that extra split second they had before is gone.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Not at all. There's nothing to suggest those players would have been able to play at the pace of todays game with anything like the skill. Everything is shortened, decision time, precision and time to place a shot when moving at the speed Ronaldo does. He does that while busting the stats of those that went before him. Best played at walking pace in comparison.

I'm pretty sure if it was the other way around and Ronaldo got to play at their pace the issue wouldn't be as big. By the same token you think it's about the here and now, other's can't let go of the past.

I doubt I will ever see anyone as good in my lifetime and I think Real Madrid will really struggle after he's gone because everyone will be in his shadow. They hate on players for fun, let alone one that cost's them a fortune and can't score like Ronaldo can.
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Where that is flawed is that it does not take into account current coaching and fitness training. Agreed passing, decision time is shortened but thats developed on the trianing field.

Ronaldo and Messi were not born quicker, more athletic etc than Zidane, Maradonna, Pele. Both outstanding players and both will go down as true world class players, best players in the world at this time.

You doubt you will see anyone as good in your lifetime ? I wouldn't be so sure
 
Loki said:
Where that is flawed is that it does not take into account current coaching and fitness training. Agreed passing, decision time is shortened but thats developed on the trianing field.
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Ant there's no guarentee they would have been able to cope with that step up that those two have already made.

Loki said:
Ronaldo and Messi were not born quicker, more athletic etc than Zidane, Maradonna, Pele.
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How do you know that? Without getting into the messi thing so disregard him for now how do you know he wasn't born faster? So you are saying when we are born we are born physically equal? I highly doubt that. So the difference between me and Usain Bolt is a carribean diet and Jamaican training techniques? Modern techniques are better but by the same token they may not have made the cut going that extra.

Loki said:
You doubt you will see anyone as good in your lifetime ? I wouldn't be so sure
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Yes I do doubt it, I can't be sure of anything as the factors in how long I will live is probably the most limiting of the factors :( but no I don't think I will ever see anyone play as well as those two do, maybe over a season or two but over the period, nope I don't think so.
 
icey_haj said:
Smalling was great. Steiger and Martial played well. Rooney...shocking.
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Jono8 said:
Sounds like Rooney continued to impress :p
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Said it for years. What's really exposing it now is Martial who is doing everything better than Rooney. He holds it up better, can beat a man with trickery and/or pace, doesn't surrender possession needlessly and scores with regularity (so far). Even the pundits who are normally loyal to a fault when it comes to discussing him were doubting him last night. " he seemed to always be getting the ball caught under his feet when running with it" - I mean FFS this is the England captain and all time leading goalscorer!

robfosters said:
Is it me or is Paul Scholes one of the most miserable men on the planet?
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He was pretty miserable last night and quite negative about the performance. i can remember plenty of United CL games where we made a right mess of it at home and conceded early goals. Last night was actually a good match. Both teams went for it and arguably United had more verve about their play than we have seen under LvG. The problem was that Depay and Wazza missed chances that would have sewn up the game by half time. LvG's assessment was pretty spot on for me. However when you are playing vs Europes elite (and lets not forget that's what the CL is) then a home win is not to be taken for granted. I have endured far worse in recent seasons under Fergie and plenty of those games featured Mr Scholes.

United are still very much work in progress but arguably on a better track than City, Chelsea, Arsenal. the only question for me is how long LvG gives Rooney to find some form and start contributing.
 
fez said:
Ronaldinho in his prime was ridiculously good.
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Yea..he was magical to watch.

Edit. I'll always remember that hat trick v Real at the Bernabeu, he got a standing ovation from the Real fans. lol
 
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I can't believe some people in here are dismissing the likes of Pele and Maradona so easily. Both were absolutely incredible. Both have absolutely ridiculous stats to back up their abilities. Both are right in the middle of the conversation when it comes to the best player of all time.

What I don't think we've seen before is two players of this ability playing in direct competition to each other. In pretty much any other era either Messi or Ronaldo would be clearly the best player in the world, but the fact that people still argue over them so much shows just how good they both are. I feel lucky that I can watch these guys each week.
 
I never saw Maradona or Pele play properly...not old enough. I imagine they were pretty good though. :D
 
Trusty said:
I never saw Maradona or Pele play properly...not old enough. I imagine they were pretty good though. :D
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I only caught Maradona just after his peak but his achievements speak for themselves. 259 goals in 491 games, from midfield, and taking an unfancied team like Napoli and made them the best team in Italy, pretty much single-handedly.

I actually still think Messi is better than him (just), but it's easier for me to say that having seen so much more of Messi (I actually watched his debut on TV). Zidane is also up there for me. Anyone who says he would've struggled with the pace of today's game is quite frankly being stupid. That man could make time. He had possibly the best control of any player I've seen, was an amazing dribbler and could create chances from nothing. I loved watching him play.
 
Yea, all these quality players from decades ago would have been fine in todays environment. Can you imagine if Best had all this nutrition and sport science backing up clubs today helping him, he would have been a beast for years.
 
Trusty said:
Yea, all these quality players from decades ago would have been fine in todays environment. Can you imagine if Best had all this nutrition and sport science backing up clubs today helping him, he would have been a beast for years.
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Would he or would he have just been another player than never made the big leagues because managers wouldn't put up with his drinking / smoking. These are the sort of things that mean you cannot compare. Would Ballotelli be one of the top strikers in the world if he didn't have behaviour issues? Who knows.
 
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