Uh-oh. PS3 'Orange Box' fails.

What makes me laugh the most about this argument is that despite all the conjecture that DVD is too small for this generation and Blu-Ray will be required, the 360 is the only console that has the very openworld and rpg games being argued about.

Crackdown, Saints Row, Blue Dragon, Mass Effect, Two Worlds, Oblivion & Shivering Isles.

The PS3 has only one game that fits the criteria being debated: Oblivion and the developers had a torrid time getting the loading times down.

http://www.*****.net/content/item.php?item=7715

According to EGM magazine, Oblivion developer Bethesda Software aren't happy that they've had to duplicate data for the PS3 version of Oblivion to improve the loading times.

Todd Howard, the executive producer of Oblivion said that "Drive speed matters more to me [than capacity], and Blu-ray is slower."

The Xbox 360 uses a 12x DVD drive with transfer speeds at 16MB/second, whereas Sony are using a 2x speed BD drive, with speeds of 9 MB/second. Bethseda are trying to solve the problem by duplicating data in order to use up the extra space on the Blu-Ray disc.
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I'm not saying Blu-Ray isn't an excellent addition just that it's not quite the 'ideal solution' that is being touted. I'm starting to think that because of the need for data duplication due to low read speeds a game like Mass Effect could end up filling a Blu-Ray disc making the whole point moot. Further, to counter any argument like Resistance take 22GB ergo it couldn't be done on the 360, one only needs to point to how Oblivion takes 18GB on Blu-Ray and 4.5GB on DVD. (source: Gamespot forum, http://uk.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25946776&page=1)
 
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Mr Men said:
You think? So you would say it's better than COD4, GOW, Rainbow, GRAW, The Darkness, Bioshock?

RFOM as a single player game is weak very weak.
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360 only shooter?

Of which none of those are?
and out of those all are available on the PC
and 3 are available on the PS3? and out of those three only one performs worse than the xbox version (allegedly)
And as i own all of those games as well (bar Bioshock) and the strongest ones listed are gears of war and COD4, I've played those through once, I've played Resistance through 3 times.
 
Abooie said:
What makes me laugh the most about this argument is that despite all the conjecture that DVD is too small for this generation and Blu-Ray will be required, the 360 is the only console that has the very openworld and rpg games being argued about.

Crackdown, Saints Row, Blue Dragon, Mass Effect, Two Worlds, Oblivion & Shivering Isles.

The PS3 has only one game that fits the criteria being debated: Oblivion and the developers had a torrid time getting the loading times down.

http://www.*****.net/content/item.php?item=7715



I'm not saying Blu-Ray isn't an excellent addition just that it's not quite the 'ideal solution' that is being touted. I'm starting to think that because of the need for data duplication due to low read speeds a game like Mass Effect could end up filling a Blu-Ray disc making the whole point moot. Further, to counter any argument like Resistance take 22GB ergo it couldn't be done on the 360, one only needs to point to how Oblivion takes 18GB on Blu-Ray and 4.5GB on DVD. (source: Gamespot forum, http://uk.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25946776&page=1)
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Why they didn't just cache the textures on HD who knows... 50MB/s still not fast enough for them?

That said they will encounter the same problem with Xbox 360 if the sequal is on DVD9, Xbox 360 drive only runs at 12X (16MB/s peak) with a single layer disc, on DVD9 it's 8X (~12MB/s peak).

Futhermore, a 25GB BD is (on average) faster than a DVD9 on Xbox 360, BD is a consistant 9MB/s throughout the whole disc whereas DVD9 on 360 is 12MB/s PEAK (only the outer edge of the disc), the further you get in the slower disc access gets to the point where it's quite a bit slower than BD.

Also, it's worth noting that PS3 can read 8X DVD's too, if BD was as bad as the PS3 boo boys are making out then PS3 developers would not use it.
 
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Abooie said:
What makes me laugh the most about this argument is that despite all the conjecture that DVD is too small for this generation and Blu-Ray will be required, the 360 is the only console that has the very openworld and rpg games being argued about.

Crackdown, Saints Row, Blue Dragon, Mass Effect, Two Worlds, Oblivion & Shivering Isles.

The PS3 has only one game that fits the criteria being debated: Oblivion and the developers had a torrid time getting the loading times down.

http://www.*****.net/content/item.php?item=7715

I'm not saying Blu-Ray isn't an excellent addition just that it's not quite the 'ideal solution' that is being touted. I'm starting to think that because of the need for data duplication due to low read speeds a game like Mass Effect could end up filling a Blu-Ray disc making the whole point moot. Further, to counter any argument like Resistance take 22GB ergo it couldn't be done on the 360, one only needs to point to how Oblivion takes 18GB on Blu-Ray and 4.5GB on DVD. (source: Gamespot forum, http://uk.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25946776&page=1)
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Yes but with oblivion they managed it and its by far the best console version, the load times are far less and it looks better than the 360 version, from the IGN review, It takes 18Gb as it can and has improved the game buy doing so.
Multiplatform users who have been holding out in hopes of getting the "best looking version" should still gravitate towards a pumped-up PC. But, as I mentioned earlier, the PS3 version of Oblivion is a definite technical improvement over the 360 edition. Even if you have the latest Xbox patch installed, this newest port holds an advantage with its quicker loading times (which are almost twice as fast as the 360's), fewer framerate hitches, sharper textures, a better draw distance, and a brighter overall picture. Audibly, you're getting the same game -- which, for those of you who are new to the game, is stacked with an excellent ambient soundtrack and strong voice acting.
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Dont seem the ever so slow BD is an issue here ?
Uncharted is another game that if you read the thread suffers from hardly any noticeable loading screens or long pauses in gameplay so again BD holding up well.
One of the Games you picked to say how good DVD9 is, blue dragon, comes on 3 disks doesnt it?, so surely DVD9 must be to small if it needs 3 of them? Where as it would only need to be on 1 BD.
The S.E RPG The Last Remnant out on both PS3 and 360 out next year, knowing S.E there will be plenty of Cut scenes etc, so would you expect it to be on 1 DVD9? If its on more than 1 then again DVD9 is to small as it will be on 1 BD disk, although Disk changing isnt a big problem, most im sure would rather not change disk even though it wont be a constant disc swap with an RPG.
Youre right about "open" world games not being on the PS3 is correct, theres only AC and Oblivion, but this is nothing to do with BD just that those games are not out yet! Infamous out in 2008 is looking like a good open world game in the kinda of crackdown type way, but i dont know much about it TBH.
Anyway back on topic , some PS3 orange box vids
http://uk.media.ps3.ign.com/media/743/743925/vids_1.html
 
wyrdo said:
Way to miss the point.
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Did i miss the point where i was supposed to say that DVD9 is better?

Anyway preview on the Orange Box from IGN, its doesnt seem as bad as 1up had lead us to believe, not perfect of course, anyway link http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/837/837808p1.html

There are plenty of reasons for PS3 fans to be skeptical of The Orange Box port. After all, EA is one of the worst offenders when it comes to porting games to the PS3. It doesn't help that while Valve handled the Xbox 360 rendition of Orange Box, it handed the PS3 version off to EA UK. After spending a few hours with four of the five pieces of The Orange Box (TF2 continues to have server issues), I have both good and bad news for PS3 owners. The Orange Box is still a fantastic collection and runs well for the most part, but there are some technical issues that put it behind the 360 version.

Before you freak, know that in my time playing The Orange Box on PS3, I only encountered a few truly troubling framerate issues. For the bulk of my playtime, the pieces of The Orange Box run fine. Sure, there's more hitching than on 360, but I was still drawn in to the dense world Valve created. The technical issues aren't going to be enough to deter anyone who wants to enjoy Orange Box on PS3. Unless you require your games to never dip below 30fps, you should not strike The Orange Box off your PS3 holiday wish list.



The framerate problems are most prominent in Half-Life 2: Episode Two. It's in this portion of The Orange Box (my personal favorite of the collection) that the most noticeable hiccups can be found. However, the drop from 30 frames per second is sporadic. You can go 10 minutes and have everything running perfectly, and then hit a few minutes that have some jitters. Again, none of it was enough to make me throw my controller in disgust. The only real issue I've found with The Orange Box on PS3 is the decision to add extra motion blur when holding objects. Everything blurs as you turn, including the object in hand. This makes it appear as if someone smeared Vaseline on the screen. And, unfortunately, The Orange Box does not support 1080i or 1080p.

There is an upside. The PS3 version of Half-Life 2 and Episode One have a few extra lighting and texture touches that make some areas look better than on 360. There's also a handy quicksave feature. Hold down the start button in any of the five games to quicksave without having to go to a menu. It comes in handy, especially if you man up and play on the hard difficulty in the Half-Life games.
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Of course, more important than looking good (or having quicksave functionality) are controls. And the PS3 version controls just fine. I had no trouble hopping onto any of the games on Orange Box and kicking some ass. Though I'd just played through The Orange Box a few months ago on 360, returning to the series I was once again struck by the quality of the lip-synching, the engrossing world, and the high level of action. Half-Life is a series that may well stand the test of time. I wouldn't be surprised if, ten years from now, the five components of The Orange Box were still fun to play.
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So not the pile of dog poo we thought it was, not as good framerate wise by the sounds of things but with added lighting and textures.
 
in Blue Dragon both the disc contains all the world data and maps, so duplicated, and all thats different on each is the fmv and story line. I expect Lost Odessey which is on 4 discs to be the same, although persoanlly i think any more than 2 discs is taking the mick but in the end without 4 discs we wouldn't have the game on the 360, so yes a limitation to a degree but in the end game developers know this and still willing to split content across multiple discs if required
 
To the people saying Blu-Ray isn't needed for games, you're probably right and Sony probably think the same.

The reason Sony put Blu-Ray into the PS3 was to use it as a means of selling Blu-Ray to consumers and getting as many Blu-Ray players into the market so they could make money from film sales.

Its a way of getting around what happened with betamax. When the PS3 came out, it was the best Blu-Ray player on the market at a fraction of the cost of other players. If the PS3 sells well (which it will do), then a high percentage of people will have Blu-Ray players, so when it comes to going HD, they're going to think,

"Mmm should I buy Bond 22 on blu-ray which is technically superior to HD-DVD and will have more audio format on, or should I go out and buy it on HD-DVD, which has an awkward name to say and I don't own the hardware to play it on?"

Thus Sony end up richer. The end.
 
Malc said:
"Mmm should I buy Bond 22 on blu-ray which is technically superior to HD-DVD and will have more audio format on, or should I go out and buy it on HD-DVD, which has an awkward name to say and I don't own the hardware to play it on?"
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Bond won't come out on HD-DVD it's a franchise distributed by Sony ;)
 
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