"UK refusal to issue gender-neutral passports unlawful, high court told"

Sex should be based on what chromosomes you have simple as that really, DNA is one of the greatest scientific discoveries in the history of the world we should use it. If the argument is that gender is not the same as sex then change all forms which ask ones gender to sex so there's no confusion.

If people want to 'identify' differently to what biology/science says they are let them but we shouldn't have to bend over backwards for a tiny vocal minority who act like dictators.
 
Caracus2k said:
Gender is completely different and has nothing to do with sex?

Demonstrarably nonsense. For the overwhelming majority of the population gender identity and biological sex align....

UK passports state 'sex' not gender on the relevant page anyway. Biological sex is an objective reality not a subjective feeling..
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It's not demonstrable at all. In fact if you care to read a science book or two the exact opposite is demonstrable. For the majority of the population sex and gender align well enough so that people either don't notice or don't care, but most people show some attributes that can be assigned to the opposite gender. It's only when people are badly aligned that they notice there is something different about themselves, or people who question rather than just accept social "normalities". This is a given scientific fact. The only thing science is unsure about is WHY. But my point is who cares why? Why do some people have short legs? Why do some people like eating fish? I mean we don't have to understand, we just have to acknowledge it and stop getting all annoyed about it. I mean why can't we just let people be what they want to be? As long as they aren't hurting anyone else I just don't see it matters.
 
Tefal said:
So again what's somoen with both genitals put down as?

Also what happens after somone has transitioned?

They no longer have a penis no longer look like a man, thier passport says male, security go as a far as a strip search but find no penis?

Are trans people just banned from travel in your world?
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Being intersex is a biological, objective reality not a subjective potentially fluid feeling . As i previously stated I would not be against three options (m, f and x) but I don't think it would stop there and assume that as soon as the three designations were accepted that pressure would then be applied to 'recognise' the wide range of gender identities people want to label themselves with.

If you want to go to the lengths of surgery, hormone treatment and have received a medically recognised gender recognition certificate based on this then you can have an 'x'. (along with everyone else who doesn't want to state their biological sex)

I would resist allowing a change of sex on passports in these circumstances as they are an official documents and I don't beleive that in all circumstances that a trans person regardless of hormone treatment and or surgery should legally be considered (and have any attached rights associated with) being a member of the sex different to their biological sex.
 
I think because running a big government system requires only simple data being entered. Having multiple genders in passports would create a logistical nightmare for the system. Our systems already struggle to cope with 2 genders!

Also as someone else said, they would be considered invalid in countries that didnt also accept genders other than male or female. So they would be near useless passports.
 
mjt said:
What if you really don't feel a man even though you have a willy, or vice versa?
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Vice versa?
You mean if you really do feel like a dick, because you haven't got a man? :p

theone8181 said:
Surely its not a choice, your DNA says XY or XX (i hope ive got that right). That should be the deciding factor, not how you 'feel'. Also on that list ive no idea what half of them are.
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What about those like that Caster Semeneya, who is (supposedly) technically female based on 'parts', but with a much higher testosterone level than usual?
Would they have to start putting the Xs and Ys in upper and lower case combinations?

Pocah said:
If you really want to confuse them tick more than one.
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They have Demi-boy and Demi-girl, but what if I'm more of a Demijohn or a Demi-Moore?
 
I say let these people [with their mental health issues], have a special little page in their passport, with the 250+ odd genders they have made up; as their constant need to invent something will mean the government will earn a killing re-issuing their passports, when they decide they are no longer a "non-binary third wave tri bi sci-fi xhe xher zi ze za zit" - what is it, £80 a time for a new passport???
 
These people who think you can just make up biology as you go along....

You can change your appearance but you can't change the core things that define your gender, like DNA or bodily functions underneath the surface.

But I can't imagine this is going to be compatible with a lot of other countries. They will run in to problems where databases expect male/female in the gender entry, when either isn't there it won't let you check in.
 
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Malevolence said:
What the government asks schoolkids in Brighton. :rolleyes:

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thing is if they'd presented me or any of my friends a form like that when we were in school they'd almost certainly get half the boxes ticked and plenty of silly additional made up ones in the comments section...
 
ttaskmaster said:
What about those like that Caster Semeneya, who is (supposedly) technically female based on 'parts', but with a much higher testosterone level than usual?
Would they have to start putting the Xs and Ys in upper and lower case combinations?
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A DNA test would be helpful in determing things but according to Wiki her DNA results were never officially released and were kept hidden for some reason? I would say that her body/physique looks male but like with your 'supposedly' remark we're only able to speculate because we are not given all of the facts. It could be that she was born biological male but with female sexual organs - maybe even male organs internally and female externally. Who knows? it still doesn't change the fact that her DNA - her biological blueprint will have started out as either male or female and there were developmental defects.

That's a bit of an extreme case anyway, most of those pushing for different genders are normal biological males/females wanting a special title based on their current mood/feelings and seeking to punish anyone who doesn't play along.
 
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It’s all getting utterly ridiculous.

I’d rather they call it ‘gender at birth’ than pander to this neutral nonsense.

I respect whatever you want to be called, or considered in society, you do you. But putting it into law is mental.
 
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