Ultimate Team Challenge 2015
- Thread starter andy_taximan
- Start date
IS IT ? lol yer its not as exciting as the last 1, evga arent bothering (got the sulks i think) STILL we are in 2nd place atm , happy days
Yes, looks like 2nd place is where we will probably stay but the fun is to be had at the challenge chat
evga saying they don't bunker and P3D showing they do
Just standing by watching the fun
PS. I didn't bunker for this one
Associate
It's still early days, thanks for the help Biffa, now back online
am I missing something lol is there a thread ive missed out on
edit - do you mean the chat between and evga member and anther team on the pogs homepage?
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yeah, the EVGA guy said they beat the team (I'm guessing us) who did the same on the last challenge, Folding is better anyway we get weekly team updates from Dekez and I need to try and hold on to 10th spot which might prove difficult
Yer it will be, your in 11th lol
GPUs on folding and CPUs on other projects works well
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Yeah, I don't think we did a lot, if any, bunkering for the last one either as we had been busy on the Constellation challenge just before it. However I do remember that some for evga did, you can still see the bump a few hours into the last challenge were they jumped up 
As ozaudio said, a lot of our team joined in after it started anyway.
Scores for the challenges and chat are here for this one...
http://www.theskynet.org/challenges/52?locale=en
and if you want to go bump watching ...
http://www.theskynet.org/challenges/46?locale=en
...you need to use the compare function, it looks small now that the graph has scaled with the total crunched but was quite large at the beginning.
As ozaudio said, a lot of our team joined in after it started anyway.Scores for the challenges and chat are here for this one...
http://www.theskynet.org/challenges/52?locale=en
and if you want to go bump watching
...http://www.theskynet.org/challenges/46?locale=en
...you need to use the compare function, it looks small now that the graph has scaled with the total crunched but was quite large at the beginning.
I think P3D and other teams fail to see how real the discouragement is. I also think the philosophy of "do it because everyone else is" is total garbage and brings the entire system even lower. If bunkering is allowed, then fine it is allowed. However, it does have real consequences and yes lowered available resources does occur. I know the larger hitters on [H]ard|OCP have really taken dislike to some of those competitions because of it.
However, I feel the real problem is that the projects don't put enough effort into the challenges at their projects. They should embrace it more as PrimeGrid has and make things more enjoyable. DC'ing has seen a decline in user interest for years. It would only make sense to try encourage growth.
However, I feel the real problem is that the projects don't put enough effort into the challenges at their projects. They should embrace it more as PrimeGrid has and make things more enjoyable. DC'ing has seen a decline in user interest for years. It would only make sense to try encourage growth.
Associate
- Joined
- 7 Jan 2015
- Posts
- 2
Greetings Overclockers UK !!
Sorry to barge in to your eminent forum, but I have a couple of things on my agenda.
Some of you know me from before, but for the record, I'm Orange from EVGA
The main reason for my visit is that the other day, a person made a post at our forums, regarding "The Ultimate Team Challenge 2015"
It was a visitor, never before posted.
He mentioned the POGS challenge, P3D and Overclockers UK.
I assumed it was some of you, so I answered as if it was.
Later, it came clear, he was no Overclocker, just another visitor.
Anyways, my answer to this dude, was meant for the Overclockers, so I thought I owed you my answer, since it was meant for you guy's.
Also, in my answer, I took the opportunity to spread the word about what we think in general about "Bunkering".
Just to be clear, no one at EVGA has ever mentioned anything about Overclockers and bunkering, rather the opposite.
In our book, Overclockers are considered a great team, with good and serious crunchers.
If this wasn't the case, I'd never bother coming over, probably not "Coleslaw" either
So, I'll just paste my answer to what I thought was a post from one of you:
"I think it's nice of other teams to say hello and to exchange thoughts and experience. We have all common interest and also we have the common goal to find either an answer, or at best, a cure.
You did a fantastic job in the last Challenge, and we thank you for pushing to the very last day. You made this challenge a really fun and interesting one. You even pulled computers out of your sofa.
I fully understand the Overclockers UK's urge for a revenge from last time. However, most crunchers around signalize that a 30 day challenge is too long.
Many think it's not ok to ask a team to dedicate resources to one single project for such a long time.
Also, we have a limited attention span as they say
About the ongoing "Ultimate Team Challenge 2015"
Some not so good stuff happened. First it was too soon, too long lasting, and then it was this behavior of P3D.
Most of us entered this challenge out of respect for Overclockers UK, and your wish for revenge.
However, when P3D presented 7-10 days of work the first day, they pulled the plug out of this challenge right there and then.
Many of us just pulled out, leaving just a fraction of our resources.
One can discuss bunkering day in and day out, but there are consequences. One of them we saw right there, people lose interest, and quit.
When a project invite all teams they can get to a, say 10 day challenge, isn't the meaning that the teams compete about how much work they can present over 10 days?
Then why does one team present 20days of work in a 10 challenge?
If they wanted so bad to work on those WU's 10 days ahead, they could, but why not deliver the ready work when ready?
Also, most WU's need validation.
When a big team deliver thousands of thousands of WU's down for validation at day one of a challenge, it will put a crazy strain on the project's hardware, possibly straining the over all performance for the whole project, slowing down the validation time for all other participants.
When a big and strong team as P3D show this tactics, they also show smaller and perhaps new teams how to.
This un-culture may harm the whole challenge spirit among many good teams.
The losers will be the project itself, and that's the exact opposite to what we crunchers want.
We are here to help out the projects.
Bunkering is not cheating, it's a lack of better knowledge."
Thank you for your time, and take care
Best Regards
Orange
Sorry to barge in to your eminent forum, but I have a couple of things on my agenda.
Some of you know me from before, but for the record, I'm Orange from EVGA
The main reason for my visit is that the other day, a person made a post at our forums, regarding "The Ultimate Team Challenge 2015"
It was a visitor, never before posted.
He mentioned the POGS challenge, P3D and Overclockers UK.
I assumed it was some of you, so I answered as if it was.
Later, it came clear, he was no Overclocker, just another visitor.
Anyways, my answer to this dude, was meant for the Overclockers, so I thought I owed you my answer, since it was meant for you guy's.
Also, in my answer, I took the opportunity to spread the word about what we think in general about "Bunkering".
Just to be clear, no one at EVGA has ever mentioned anything about Overclockers and bunkering, rather the opposite.
In our book, Overclockers are considered a great team, with good and serious crunchers.
If this wasn't the case, I'd never bother coming over, probably not "Coleslaw" either
So, I'll just paste my answer to what I thought was a post from one of you:
"I think it's nice of other teams to say hello and to exchange thoughts and experience. We have all common interest and also we have the common goal to find either an answer, or at best, a cure.
You did a fantastic job in the last Challenge, and we thank you for pushing to the very last day. You made this challenge a really fun and interesting one. You even pulled computers out of your sofa.
I fully understand the Overclockers UK's urge for a revenge from last time. However, most crunchers around signalize that a 30 day challenge is too long.
Many think it's not ok to ask a team to dedicate resources to one single project for such a long time.
Also, we have a limited attention span as they say
About the ongoing "Ultimate Team Challenge 2015"
Some not so good stuff happened. First it was too soon, too long lasting, and then it was this behavior of P3D.
Most of us entered this challenge out of respect for Overclockers UK, and your wish for revenge.
However, when P3D presented 7-10 days of work the first day, they pulled the plug out of this challenge right there and then.
Many of us just pulled out, leaving just a fraction of our resources.
One can discuss bunkering day in and day out, but there are consequences. One of them we saw right there, people lose interest, and quit.
When a project invite all teams they can get to a, say 10 day challenge, isn't the meaning that the teams compete about how much work they can present over 10 days?
Then why does one team present 20days of work in a 10 challenge?
If they wanted so bad to work on those WU's 10 days ahead, they could, but why not deliver the ready work when ready?
Also, most WU's need validation.
When a big team deliver thousands of thousands of WU's down for validation at day one of a challenge, it will put a crazy strain on the project's hardware, possibly straining the over all performance for the whole project, slowing down the validation time for all other participants.
When a big and strong team as P3D show this tactics, they also show smaller and perhaps new teams how to.
This un-culture may harm the whole challenge spirit among many good teams.
The losers will be the project itself, and that's the exact opposite to what we crunchers want.
We are here to help out the projects.
Bunkering is not cheating, it's a lack of better knowledge."
Thank you for your time, and take care
Best Regards
Orange
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Thanks for your thoughts Orange, and indeed Coleslaw.
I'm not sure what can be done to prevent bunkering. It may not be in the spirit of these types of challenge, but we all know it happens. Unfortunately unless the challenge software has a mechanism to discount those WUs that are downloaded prior to the challenge start time, it will always happen.
In some way the previous challenge, which was a month long, overcame any issues that might have existed with bunkering. The overall challenge time, relative to the output of the teams involved, meant the distortions were not significant by the end. But when a really big resourced team comes in and bunkers with output that the best of the rest need over a week to match, then there is disillusionment.
I've remarked elsewhere that the person who set this challenge this time round hasn't even managed to get his own team to compete. That to me says a lot.
The previous challenge was fun, and as you say there were things being pulled out from sofas. That did work because the challenge was a long run time, which won't happen with shorter periods. But it was the novelty of the challenge that motivated EVGA and OcUK. Another month long challenge so soon was, in my view, never going to work. An annual challenge possibly, but even then we are now all on notice and pre-prepared so the surprise factor that created the fun won't be the same. This is why this time, I haven't committed many resources. My electric bill is still recovering from last time.
I'm not sure what can be done to prevent bunkering. It may not be in the spirit of these types of challenge, but we all know it happens. Unfortunately unless the challenge software has a mechanism to discount those WUs that are downloaded prior to the challenge start time, it will always happen.
In some way the previous challenge, which was a month long, overcame any issues that might have existed with bunkering. The overall challenge time, relative to the output of the teams involved, meant the distortions were not significant by the end. But when a really big resourced team comes in and bunkers with output that the best of the rest need over a week to match, then there is disillusionment.
I've remarked elsewhere that the person who set this challenge this time round hasn't even managed to get his own team to compete. That to me says a lot.
The previous challenge was fun, and as you say there were things being pulled out from sofas. That did work because the challenge was a long run time, which won't happen with shorter periods. But it was the novelty of the challenge that motivated EVGA and OcUK. Another month long challenge so soon was, in my view, never going to work. An annual challenge possibly, but even then we are now all on notice and pre-prepared so the surprise factor that created the fun won't be the same. This is why this time, I haven't committed many resources. My electric bill is still recovering from last time.
I also says thanks for the posts and think Planet3D were always gona be number1 even without that huge start.
1 idea to stop bunkering, say each wu get 1000 points for being downloaded and returned in 2 hours and the same wu downloaded and returned 7 days later gets only 1 point ! haha or something like this for the duration of the comp?, ok i know some dont have good internet connections but some dont have good pcs either so it evens out.
Im sure theres other good ideas floating around ...
1 idea to stop bunkering, say each wu get 1000 points for being downloaded and returned in 2 hours and the same wu downloaded and returned 7 days later gets only 1 point ! haha or something like this for the duration of the comp?, ok i know some dont have good internet connections but some dont have good pcs either so it evens out.
Im sure theres other good ideas floating around ...
MGP, you are right. The project has to "fix" the issue. Especially at POGS where there is essentially two separate forums. Many BOINC contributors still don't even realize there is a "main" site. I didn't know about it until a month or two after POGS started and that was because I was looking at stats on Free-DC. They really do need to merge the forums. Especially now that they are working on getting the Source Finder app ported to BOINC. It is still up in the air on whether it will be delivered at POGS or a whole other 3rd site. They have a good response team, but they just don't have the resources for what they are doing. I have had many PM conversations with them. Members of my team worked directly with them on getting the optimized apps and GPU apps going. It should have been progressing back in May. At least official testing. But Kevin is just "too busy". As you can see from our teams stats, there is little interest there right now. And these competitions bring no joy for us. With all the work theSkyNet has put into their site, they could easily have done what PrimeGrid does.
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Last time round by the end I was running the 4P (some 64 AMD cores), an overclocked i7 2600, a couple of i5 desktops, an older i5 laptop, an Asus tablet, a Q6600 and even a Pentium. As hinted above, I was literally digging out stuff from anywhere. Madness
There was a lot of digging going on last time and it was great fun. I fired up all sorts of stuff - including my laptop a Nexus 7 and an old macbook (on top of my 3 main rigs). I was even digging around for an old Sempron rig I got from a neighbour 
Pity it's not so much fun this time
Pity it's not so much fun this time
Idea number 2, let the server dish out 3 or 4 of each wu then only the first 2 need to be verified and the other 1 or 2 get server aborted, this will keep everybodys stash of wu`s low, No bunkering.
Im not going to use my Note3 this time lol
Im not going to use my Note3 this time lol
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