Uncalled for prosecution

Bobie8 said:
Living in Aberdeen and knowing these Roads apart from the loosing control bit I don't see a problem with it. I'm assuming he got to the incident and it was dealt with, what would people be saying if the story was "Family stabbed to death and officers gunned down while Armed response arrives at 30mph"
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Going the wrong way around Haudagain roundabout, which is a nightmare at the best of times, you don't see anything wrong with that? The guy is a idiot and just because he is responding to a incident doesn't give him the right to put other peoples lives at risk.
 
No point getting to a point of incident having run down 15 people to get there. It is all about balance and coppers have been known to get the red mist when they get the call.
 
We don't know the full facts, sounds like perhaps he was pushing it a bit too much to get there but we'll never know as we won't get to see the onboard video.

I know North Wales police advise (or did at least) only doing 20mph above the speed limit to keep some sort of control. Some people will always treat blues like a green card to drive like they're in a rally however.
 
troops said:
He will get a slapped wrist, doesn't matter that it was an emergency he would have done nothing when he got there if firearms were involved.
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Well that's not quite true. Unarmed police get deployed to low risk firearms jobs all the time.

MrMoonX said:
Police are not above the law, responding isn't an excuse
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I get what you're saying but Police do have many exemptions whilst responding which other's don't. Driving dangerous obviously isn't one though.

Housey said:
No point getting to a point of incident having run down 15 people to get there. It is all about balance and coppers have been known to get the red mist when they get the call.
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This is pretty much my view. He obviously wanted to get on scene quickly, but that's no excuse for putting other people's lives in danger to such an acute extent. Any response driving has risk, but that risk needs to me managed through extensive training - training that the officer seems to have ignored.
 
without the vid this means little really. they say he "lost control"...how exactly? causing people to "swerve" out of his way... well people are supposed to get out of the way aren't they? :p was it more forced upon the drivers to avoid an accident? dunno.... just going on peoples words.

WE NEED THIS VID :D

opinion for now, probably did all things said but probably been blown up a bit and the video will show it bot being as crazy as the story wants us to think :p pretty sure I've seen cops/fire/ambulance do everything said in that story, minus the lose control and force people to swerve as they do seem to take care in traffic/junctions.... I mean.... why risk causing another incident in addition to the one you're trying to get to xD
 
First responders do not get a free pass to drive dangerously, they can drive faster and through red lights etc..but they must take due care and attention and allow other traffic to give way etc before proceeding...that's why they have sirens, lights etc...
 
The article does sound as though he took too many risks but its hard to say without seeing really.

The amount of times I've seen cars ignore or just seemingly not see emergency vehicles on a call kind of speaks for itself, caution must still be used, that said I have no problem with emergency response vehicles speeding, running lights, driving on the wrong side of the road etc, if it's reasonably safe to do so.

I think only the people who have seen the video are in a position to decide the difference between calculated risk and recklessness as it's not a cut and dry issue.
 
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He has already conceded that he was driving dangerously....so he was driving like a tool and he admits it.

Not sure what the story is all about.
 
Who brought these charges against him? If it was his fellow plod then I assume they're warranted, however if it was a complaint by a civilian then it could be either.

Do we think they'd release the dashcam footage to the public?
 
NVP said:
Who brought these charges against him? If it was his fellow plod then I assume they're warranted, however if it was a complaint by a civilian then it could be either.

Do we think they'd release the dashcam footage to the public?
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It would have been by the internal Professional Standards Dept. I also wouldn't assume anything, there was a shambles of a case where Hampshire prosecuted a Police driver on blues who was acquitted by the court. That should never have gone that far. So yeah, it could be either.
 
Oh really? Tbf it was a pretty daft assumption.

Just did a bit of reading and it looks like that case shook up the authorities, which I can understand.

A public consultation launched today follows criticism by the Police Federation – which represents rank-and-file officers – of the CPS for prosecuting Portsmouth PC James Holden for dangerous driving.

The Federation raised fears PC Holden’s case has caused officers nationwide concerns that they too could end up being prosecuted – despite him being acquitted.

John Apter, chairman of Hampshire Police Federation, said: ‘This is something we have been campaigning for since PC James Holden was acquitted.

‘This is not about allowing police officers or other emergency drivers to drive as they please with no consequences.

‘There needs to be a very close look at charging standards when emergency drivers are performing the role they are trained to do.

‘If there is a collision or injury or fatality then it is right and proper that they are subjected to the scrutiny that the public would expect.

‘However, without a review and potential change in the law, emergency drivers are putting themselves at risk of prosecution every time they turn their blue lights on – and that is not an acceptable position to be in.’

portsmouth.co.uk - Sept 2012
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I wonder what "changes" were made in the end.
 
Housey said:
No point getting to a point of incident having run down 15 people to get there. It is all about balance and coppers have been known to get the red mist when they get the call.
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Completely this.

He does sound like he was driving like a mentalist. Unfortunately, if it's not safe to overtake, go through red lights or drive at excessive speed, then you just don't do it or you do it cautiously. Sometimes you have to sit back and turn the lights and sirens off and wait for an appropriate place to overtake, but you never should become dangerous in your driving. Causing a serious RTC and injury through crap driving to get to a firearms job where someone could be caused injury is just nonsensical.
 
The police are insane when it comes to driving one guy nearly hit me when i was driving so it is very risky to be honest with you, although if they were in a serious chance i can understand it because they are trained to chase the ******s down
 
MrMoonX said:
Police are not above the law, responding isn't an excuse
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Except of course they are.

Because they are perfectly entitled to both speed and run red lights when responding to an emergency with blues and twos going.

Written down in text, multiple occurences of "running red lights" and "crossing the carriageway" and "speeding" make it sound like every other blue right response.

Clearly it wasn't, which is why he's being charged with dangerous driving. But Somebody is going to have to make the call as to whether he went too far in his attempts to get there quickly. Without advanced police driver training and knowing what they are taught that they can or can't do, i think it would be very difficult for any civilian to make that call, unless they had a court case like this whereby expert witnesses can be cross examined to ascertain where the driver deviated from his training.
 
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