United States Grand Prix 2012, Austin - Race 19/20

The lengths you will go to try to convince yourself that Hamilton has driven better than alonso this year is fan boy frightening.

Nothing this year comes close to alonsos drive to win after getting pole in the wet then controlling the race from the front against faster cars. Regardless of car woes as alonso had in 2010 no one is capable of the kind of consistency he has shown in the last 3 years.

So you don't rate hamiltons drives in 2009 then when he had kers to get him off the line better than those better cars?
 
To be fair those stats could just show he isn't very good at qualifying

Or even just the car is better on race pace, doesn't really prove He us epic

The Renault was the best car in those two fantastic years, it's launch control and reliability were top. And the scoring rewarded that.. Happy days :-)

Red Bull has the best car
Lotus could easily have 2nd in the championship without grojean and his accidents (i don't think KR has out performed the car, just delivered its potential)
But for second its close between ferrari and Mclaren
 
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dannyjo22 said:
The lengths you will go to try to convince yourself that Hamilton has driven better than alonso this year is fan boy frightening.

Nothing this year comes close to alonsos drive to win after getting pole in the wet then controlling the race from the front against faster cars. Regardless of car woes as alonso had in 2010 no one is capable of the kind of consistency he has shown in the last 3 years.

So you don't rate hamiltons drives in 2009 then when he had kers to get him off the line better than those better cars?
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Your basing a years worth of driving on Alonsos performance in 1 race.

Using that method Maldonado has driven better than Alonso. He won beating better cars, but he did it in the dry. So did Rosberg.

By all means make a case for Alonso, but do it using more evidence than just 1 race. Instead look at how he crushed Massa into oblivion, how he avoided crashing into people like his rivals did, how he drove with the mentality of "we can do this" rather than "this car is ****"....
 
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Skeeter said:
Your basing a years worth of driving on Alonsos performance in 1 race.

Using that method Maldonado has driven better than Alonso. He won beating better cars, but he did it in the dry. So did Rosberg.

By all means make a case for Alonso, but do it using more evidence than just 1 race. Instead look at how he crushed Massa into oblivion, how he avoided crashing into people like his rivals did, how he drove with the mentality of "we can do this" rather than "this car is ****"....
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What? I wasn't making a case for his year old performance, just the comment that he only had a great 200m starts and no actual epic races.
 
drunkenmaster said:
In what way is that epic? An epic drive can be being crashed into, dropping to last and coming back to 5 places behind your grid slot. He has a car that is brilliant off the grid, Massa has been equally good off the grid, both of them have gained a silly number of places all year. This isn't the sign of a good drive, a good drive or an epic drive, is driving brilliantly for an entire race. Having a car that starts better, is as impressive as getting pole when you have by FAR the fastest car... not very.

A good drive is 50-70 laps of greatness, not better grip over 200metres in 5 seconds.

Ferrari is also what you would call the third FASTEST car, fastest != best, it is ONE metric of many.

The Ferrari has been not massively slower than the Mclaren, in multiple races its been faster, the Mclaren has been faster than the Ferrari in more races, however Ferrari reliability pee's all over Mclaren from a simply massive height to the degree that the Mclaren looks like an ant.

The Ferrari is EASILY the second best car this year, and not far off first.... mostly due to reliability.
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I'm not going to debate with you about this because I get the impression that you won't change your opinion that Alonso has driven fantastically all season. Not only that but I also CBA to post endless youtube clips showing all the incredible overtakes and wheel to wheel encounters he's had.
 
I think Kimi has to be applauded this season as well. He has come back into F1 and will probably beat Hamiton in the standings ( although i know, this is down to Mclaren and their unreliable car and not Hamilton, but still). Also, i think i heard in the last race he has completed every lap of every Grand Prix this season. If he finishes on Sunday that will be incredible.

He has been wonderful to watch when overtaking/getting overtaken.

Classy driver Kimi is.
 
Jono8 said:
I think Kimi has to be applauded this season as well. He has come back into F1 and will probably beat Hamiton in the standings ( although i know, this is down to Mclaren and their unreliable car and not Hamilton, but still). Also, i think i heard in the last race he has completed every lap of every Grand Prix this season. If he finishes on Sunday that will be incredible.

He has been wonderful to watch when overtaking/getting overtaken.

Classy driver Kimi is.
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I agree. As said Alonso is the best but for me all round package as a driver Kimi is just top class (well I'm a fan so hey). His awareness in race is excellent and he always brings the car home. Hopefully will see even better from him next season, particularly in that I don't expect him to be getting so high in the points because of other drivers demise next time :p
 
Captain Planet said:
Not only that but I also CBA to post endless youtube clips showing all the incredible overtakes and wheel to wheel encounters he's had.
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I think you should CP :) It would be nice to view them all :p
There have been some fantastic overtakes by Alonso this year... would be great to see them again.
 
Captain Planet said:
I agree. As said Alonso is the best but for me all round package as a driver Kimi is just top class (well I'm a fan so hey). His awareness in race is excellent and he always brings the car home. Hopefully will see even better from him next season, particularly in that I don't expect him to be getting so high in the points because of other drivers demise next time :p
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Thirded.
Hes done well for his first season back, furthermore still 3rd in the championship with only one win to his name is no small feat.
 
I'm going to take an alternate view on Kimi's season. I have been impressed by his ability to finish all of the races, but I haven't been impressed with his pace. Take this weekend as a prime example, grosjean qualified in front of Kimi, then was demoted 5 places by a gearbox change. Then on around lap 3 he overtook kimi to end up in front of him again even though they started on the same side of the grid. This hasn't been a one off either, as grosjean has outpaced kimi many times this year, but usually crashes at some point - but that says more about grosjean than kimi obviously.
 
I think thats party due to peoples opinion on Grosjean. His failed first attempt at F1 coupled with his ability to keep crashing has masked the fact that he is actually a very fast driver. In his 2 years between F1 outings he has had a lot of success and is one of the most promising young raw talents to come through from GP2 for a while. He just needs to lose the 'raw' bit.
 
Kimi has done well (helped by reliability of course) but he is only 3rd because of how inept McLaren have been engineering wise /reliability

Kimi has definitely "woken" up since his win (although admittedly he has had a few brilliant performances before this), but imo there are a number of times where he underperformed during the season to suggest he really deserves 3rd
 
Some of my pics:

Chopper bringing in VIPs:
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F1 branded MP4-12C:
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Track shots:
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