United States Grand Prix 2012, Austin - Race 19/20
- Thread starter Duke
- Start date
Just two races has he dropped place from grid to finish. Statistically he has driven epically all season.
Sorry, whose stats are those?
Alonso is epic. He is attempting to win the title in the 3rd best car on the grid. This simply isn't supposed to be possible. But we saw it in 2010 and we are seeing it again.
Vettel is a fantastic driver. By the end of his career, he may finish up as the most decorated driver in F1 history. But Alonso, in an inferior car, is able to go toe-to-toe with him. I would call that epic.
People on this board don't realise just how good Vettel is. Which is strange given that on the telly, the commentators and former drivers constantly praise him.
In 13 months, Vettel may be a 4 time WDC. How are the haters going to explain this away, I wonder?
Anyway gents, next week, if it rains, I think we are going to have a fab race on our hands. Rain is a great equaliser and we shall get to see a master class from Alonso. If its dry, unfortunately, Alonso's only hope will be a DNF for Vettel.
...and before someone says "Massa can crash into Vettel". I shall ask you this question: When was the last time a team-mate assisted a driver to win a title by "taking out" his team-mate's title rival? My answer: probably never...JRS, can you answer this question?
Vettel is a fantastic driver. By the end of his career, he may finish up as the most decorated driver in F1 history. But Alonso, in an inferior car, is able to go toe-to-toe with him. I would call that epic.
People on this board don't realise just how good Vettel is. Which is strange given that on the telly, the commentators and former drivers constantly praise him.
In 13 months, Vettel may be a 4 time WDC. How are the haters going to explain this away, I wonder?
Anyway gents, next week, if it rains, I think we are going to have a fab race on our hands. Rain is a great equaliser and we shall get to see a master class from Alonso. If its dry, unfortunately, Alonso's only hope will be a DNF for Vettel.
...and before someone says "Massa can crash into Vettel". I shall ask you this question: When was the last time a team-mate assisted a driver to win a title by "taking out" his team-mate's title rival? My answer: probably never...JRS, can you answer this question?
I think crashing in purpose is the other side of the line, however its an area Alonso is familiar with.
That said, I don't think even Ferrari would be able to hold off the backlash that would result if Massa crashed into Vettel on purpose.
That said, I don't think even Ferrari would be able to hold off the backlash that would result if Massa crashed into Vettel on purpose.
Was the Renault not the best car in 2005 and 2006?
First lap changes
Really great picture.. shows how much of a penalty starting on the dirty side really is
Deleted member 651465
D
Deleted member 651465
Vettel needn't worry about Massa, he could easily t-bone Alonso and collect the WDC, Prost/Senna/MSc style 
Just doing the thread now & will see if a don can make a poll on it for us too.
Deleted member 651465
D
Deleted member 651465
I dunno, I'm a bit busy trying to work my way out of the logic hole you ripped in the space/time continuum with the opening to your post:
Who says so?
So it is possible then?
It's enough to make a man go cross-eyed....
Anyway, to answer your question: I very much doubt you'll find many instances in the history of the world championship where a driver has been aided by his team-mate taking off a rival. Probably the closest you're going to find is 1964, one of the most dramatic championship finales ever. Three drivers went into the race with a chance at the title - Jim Clark (Lotus), Graham Hill (BRM) and John Surtees (Ferrari).
Clark led from pole, followed by Dan Gurney. Hill and Lorenzo Bandini (Surtees' team-mate) duelled for 3rd. Surtees himself was down in 5th and seemingly out of it. Bandini ran into the back of Hill, spinning him and causing him to lose a few places. The damage from the collision slowed Hill's car to the point that he ended up falling two laps behind. At this stage, Clark would have been champion. But his engine broke a couple of laps from home. Bandini then let Surtees through to take 2nd place, and he won the title.
Now, whether or not it was deliberate is another matter. Hill did apparently send Bandini a 'Learn to drive' manual for Christmas that year though!
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Nice one.
You ought to send that grid graphic to Autosport or something btw
I got it elsewhere, not mine
Looks like it came off Wikipedia or something.Depends how you define the best. It wasn't the fastest but it was more reliable.
He's a good driver in epically good cars. That's how I will explain it away. Again if Jacques Villeneuve started driving for Williams in 93 with Frentzen as a team mate he would have won 3 world titles. That wouldn't have made him a great, just a capable driver in an epic set of cars.
Twice now Alonso has pushed Vettel to the wire in inferior equipment. The first time he neither had a faster car or a more reliable car and still he took Vettel to the wire. It kind of reminds me of Damon and Schumacher where Damon looked better than he actually was because of the Williams car advantage at the time.
We won't know how good he is until gets a better team mate than is allowed to race him on an even footing or a car advantage. Maybe in 2014 we will see how he does in a car that isn't the best?
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The Ferrari this year has perhaps not been as bad as people make out. Reliability and starts have been awesome, race-pace has been reasonable but qualifying pace pretty poor. That said, it should not be a car with a chance of winning the WC so major kudos to Alonso.
I'm not a massive Vettel fan but I thought he came out of the weekend very well. Lewis had the freedom of not having to worry about the WC so am not surprised he drove such a faultless and quick race. Despite being under pressure for most of the race with Lewis reeling him in he soaked up the pressure even if Lewis was ultimately that bit quicker. I wonder if the boot had been on the other foot and Lewis was the one under pressure if he would have been so flawless?
I'm not a massive Vettel fan but I thought he came out of the weekend very well. Lewis had the freedom of not having to worry about the WC so am not surprised he drove such a faultless and quick race. Despite being under pressure for most of the race with Lewis reeling him in he soaked up the pressure even if Lewis was ultimately that bit quicker. I wonder if the boot had been on the other foot and Lewis was the one under pressure if he would have been so flawless?
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Caporegime
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In what way is that epic? An epic drive can be being crashed into, dropping to last and coming back to 5 places behind your grid slot. He has a car that is brilliant off the grid, Massa has been equally good off the grid, both of them have gained a silly number of places all year. This isn't the sign of a good drive, a good drive or an epic drive, is driving brilliantly for an entire race. Having a car that starts better, is as impressive as getting pole when you have by FAR the fastest car... not very.
A good drive is 50-70 laps of greatness, not better grip over 200metres in 5 seconds.
Ferrari is also what you would call the third FASTEST car, fastest != best, it is ONE metric of many.
The Ferrari has been not massively slower than the Mclaren, in multiple races its been faster, the Mclaren has been faster than the Ferrari in more races, however Ferrari reliability pee's all over Mclaren from a simply massive height to the degree that the Mclaren looks like an ant.
The Ferrari is EASILY the second best car this year, and not far off first.... mostly due to reliability.