Universal basic income to be trialled

james.miller said:
Wouldnt be any different to how rents and council tax are calculated lol.
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Given the state of how council tax bandings are determined and how rent prises vary wildly, using your analogy would mean wildly varying benefits levels within small areas.

Also, the administration costs for developing, managing and operating this scheme could likely over ride any kind of savings hoping to be made.


GIBURROWS said:
Yes, the boundaries could be house prices and a percentage. If we were to get 1,600 a month I'm moving up north ASAP!
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People currently get paid the same just now and don't suddenly all move up North.
 
413x said:
I don't see how it won't be dystopia.
What's that film where everyone lives on earth in poverty and the elite live on this orbiting utopia?

That's what it would be like.

Humans have always exploited others. The top are trying to pay the lowers the least they can. We've gotten past slavery. But there are still so many disadvantaged, the nhs for example is dying.

Money is still be funneled to the rich at the expense of the poor.


This UBI dream would put so much pressure on the rich it wouldn't be worth doing those high paid jobs.
Its a gargantuan amount to tax the well off.
I haven't seen the maths of how this is feasible.
1600 a month per person is just not affordable the tax on high paid jobs would be insane and make them not worth doing.



So UBI is the utopis answer to AI, but following the dystopia track..

Let's take an extreme view. AI destroys 99.99pc of jobs over time. A few people/corps own this AI revolution. UBI isn't viable.

As jobs drop off, the richer would get richer faster. More and more people would only be kept alive through "charity" .
But why give this charity (UBI) at all? Why not just horde resources and live a life of luxury?
Why fund all these useless, resource consuming humans?

After all, if no one has a job, and no money, there's no need to make anything. We go back to resources being everything.

Humans are now inefficient at extracting and processing these resources vs AI/robotics. Why do we (the elite) need them?.. Wait.. We don't.



It takes a majority to be kind for a utopia. It only takes a few selfish, greedy, dictators to create a dystopia.
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www.imdb.com

Elysium (2013) - IMDb

Elysium: Directed by Neill Blomkamp. With Matt Damon, Jodie Foster, Sharlto Copley, Alice Braga. In the year 2154, the very wealthy live on a man-made space station while the rest of the population resides on a ruined Earth. A man takes on a mission that could bring equality to the polarized worlds.
www.imdb.com www.imdb.com
 
Richie said:
Given the state of how council tax bandings are determined and how rent prises vary wildly, using your analogy would mean wildly varying benefits levels within small areas.

Also, the administration costs for developing, managing and operating this scheme could likely over ride any kind of savings hoping to be made.




People currently get paid the same just now and don't suddenly all move up North.
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More fool them
 
LuckyBenski said:
Exactly the issue - How do you define location? Does the person already have to be living there? From there for X years or have family there?

Can you just hitch hike to a different town and rock up to the dole office and get better money?
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I'd say it would be based on the house/flat you're in as to what percentage gets paid and then utilities it wouldn't matter.
 
Trying to compare now to a fully implemented UBI environment is a mugs game.
Be that taxes, to property, to where people would want to or could live, impossible.

Its quite possible, and IMO necessary, that if AI and robotics significantly reduced the need for labour that there would be some link to providing at least some service for your existence.
Eg maybe 2 months picking fruit, or other things.

I don't believe the UBI would be as high as the trial anyway. Suspect the point of being that high is to see the more extreme end of it rather than providing a basic existence.

Why would many people want to live in cities if they didn't need to. London would probably plunge in attractiveness IMO.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Trying to compare now to a fully implemented UBI environment is a mugs game.
Be that taxes, to property, to where people would want to or could live, impossible.

Its quite possible, and IMO necessary, that if AI and robotics significantly reduced the need for labour that there would be some link to providing at least some service for your existence.
Eg maybe 2 months picking fruit, or other things.

I don't believe the UBI would be as high as the trial anyway. Suspect the point of being that high is to see the more extreme end of it rather than providing a basic existence.

Why would many people want to live in cities if they didn't need to. London would probably plunge in attractiveness IMO.
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The UBI has to be high enough to live on, but a basic life without much luxury. Something just above the national living wage. Otherwise it defeats the point and you get something very different out of it. It needs to be high enough such that working is optional , freeing people to spend their time in alternate means such as unpaid charity work, raising a family, starting a new company.

If it is a token amount then it is little different to child tax credits so won't achieve the desired outcomes
 
D.P. said:
The UBI has to be high enough to live on, but a basic life without much luxury. Something just above the national living wage. Otherwise it defeats the point and you get something very different out of it. It needs to be high enough such that working is optional , freeing people to spend their time in alternate means such as unpaid charity work, raising a family, starting a new company.

If it is a token amount then it is little different to child tax credits so won't achieve the desired outcomes
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Not sure what new companies people are going to be starting if AI and robotics has made most jobs no longer require humans to do them.

Again its the same issue, trying to predict what people will do / need to do in the future.
You won't need to put kids into child care if your at leisure most of the time.

IF UBI becomes a requirement due to a population basically not needing to work then its going to be so different its not worth predicting people will do this or that.
 
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