Universal basic income

terley

terley

terley

Soldato
Joined
3 Feb 2010
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3,034
I've heard many people talking about this idea, and lots of countries are trialling it in certain areas to see how effective it is. Some countries like Finland are doing larger trials and proving some level of success allegedly...

Do you think that it is something that could actually work and lift millions out of unemployment and poverty? or is it just some far-left wet dream of idealistic falsehood..

I am starting to lean towards the thought that it is a natural step in human evolution, although only once we hit a certain level autonomy.

Say 50% of all manual jobs are taken by automated machines, it will be a requirement... Therefore at some point it must happen, is it better to start early to avoid generations of ill educated and impoverished citizens?

http://www.autonomyinstitute.org/po...ion-universal-basic-income-dr-jamie-woodcock/
 
In an ideal world the rich should help fund the poor. It's not an ideal world though. I'd like someone to explain to me why a billionaire has billions and keeps it. Meanwhile millions of people go hungry. I'll make an excuse for philanthropists but otherwise the rest of the rich can go **** themselves.
 
Without the tax the rich pay, the poor will starve on the streets. My taxes, meager as they are, house, clothe and feed about 2 families per year. Had I been a millionaire, it would probably clothe and feed 20+.

As for UBI, I like the idea. I don't know if it'll make any difference as there's a certain type of person that will always find a way to waste all their resources. But I like the idea. I'd absolutely still work, no question about that. However knowing that I have that backup and security. It's a peace of mind.
 
terley said:
I am starting to lean towards the thought that it is a natural step in human evolution, although only once we hit a certain level autonomy.
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On our current trajectory, If we wish to avoid another french revolution, if we wish to see man as a species progress to its full potential, if we wish to live two generations past where we are now, I don't see any other path possible except some derivative of UBI, else it's surely apocalypse.
 
EyeDot said:
On our current trajectory, If we wish to avoid another french revolution, if we wish to see man as a species progress to its full potential, if we wish to live two generations past where we are now, I don't see any other path possible except some derivative of UBI, else it's surely apocalypse.
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Exactly, i just dont see how a society could function without it once we move closer and closer towards absolute autonomy.

It is quite difficult to find actual studies in to what percent a country has reached in autonomy but i am betting that the number is starting to gain momentum.
 
terley said:
Do you think that it is something that could actually work and lift millions out of unemployment and poverty? or is it just some far-left wet dream of idealistic falsehood..
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could well have the opposite effect, down south at least...

have you had a look at the rates they get in say the Finland experiment - plenty of unemployed households in London get more than that in housing benefit already
 
regulus said:
Without the tax the rich pay, the poor will starve on the streets.
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Rubbish. Poor people have struggled by long before governments came up with taxes. Also the poor pay taxes too and as there are vastly more poor than rich it could be said that the poor fund the rich. The TRUTH is that rich people have far more than they need and most of them choose to keep it. Wake up!
 
Sliver said:
Poor people have struggled by long before governments came up with taxes.
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LOL sure, but we don't tend to live in little huts we built in the woods these days, we tend to want modern accommodation, infrastructure, a health service, an education system, policing, defence etc...
 
Sliver said:
Rubbish. Poor people have struggled by long before governments came up with taxes. Also the poor pay taxes too and as there are vastly more poor than rich it could be said that the poor fund the rich. The TRUTH is that rich people have far more than they need and most of them choose to keep it. Wake up!
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The poor fund the rich, what planet are you on?

The richest 10% pay something like 50% of all income tax.

The poorest get far more back from the state than they pay in taxes.
 
Sliver said:
Rubbish. Poor people have struggled by long before governments came up with taxes. Also the poor pay taxes too and as there are vastly more poor than rich it could be said that the poor fund the rich. The TRUTH is that rich people have far more than they need and most of them choose to keep it. Wake up!
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All emotion, no substance. The rich DO pay the VAST majority of the taxes, supply the jobs and pay for the infrastructure. It matters nothing if they have more, they pay more. I understand in your communist utopia it may not seem that way, but try and be a little bit more thankful towards those of us paying for the less fortunate.
 
Sliver said:
Rubbish. Poor people have struggled by long before governments came up with taxes. Also the poor pay taxes too and as there are vastly more poor than rich it could be said that the poor fund the rich. The TRUTH is that rich people have far more than they need and most of them choose to keep it. Wake up!
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You are talking absolute nonsense. To be a net contributor to the country you have to be a higher rate tax payer and seeing about 70% of the country are not higher rate tax payers then 70% of the country get more services than they pay for. The vast majority are living off the contributions made by the minority and have done for ages.

You could argue how wealth is distributed where a very small amount of people own obscene amounts of money but that’s a different discussion
 
Energize said:
The poor fund the rich, what planet are you on?

The richest 10% pay something like 50% of all income tax.

The poorest get far more back from the state than they pay in taxes.
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hes on the planet where the poor keep the world turning.

eradicate all poor people from the world ie anyone on minimum wage or close to it.
and see how the rich manage by themselves.

now do it the other way around and eradicate anyone earning more than say 25k a year or even 50k a year
which world would be more productive do you think?

There will likely be a point in the future where the current system will be scene as some form of slavery
 
I've long supported a universal basic income in the form of negative income tax as a replacement for the current income tax/ni and benefits system.

The problem is many people don't like it because it's much harder to use the tax and benefit system to influence behaviour and award your core voters, which is of course part of the benefit.
 
I've always liked the idea in theory. My issue is that we now live in a culture of "I am entitled to... I deserve this..." rather than the concept of contributing. People have kids with no concept of budgeting. People of all grades of education refuse to do dirty or "lowly" jobs. They expect hand outs. Something has to change soon. I don't personally think socialism is the answer.

Obviously capitalism isn't perfect either with the ever growing weather gap.

High tax schemes also don't work without global implementation or a lever to keep the rich from leaving.
 
Kemik said:
I've always liked the idea in theory. My issue is that we now live in a culture of "I am entitled to... I deserve this..." rather than the concept of contributing. People have kids with no concept of budgeting. People of all grades of education refuse to do dirty or "lowly" jobs. They expect hand outs. Something has to change soon. I don't personally think socialism is the answer.

Obviously capitalism isn't perfect either with the ever growing weather gap.

High tax schemes also don't work without global implementation or a lever to keep the rich from leaving.
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but in practice it has been successful and showed to work
 
Sliver said:
I'd like someone to explain to me why a billionaire has billions and keeps it.
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I sort of agree in theory, but it's not quite as simple as that - ignoring inheritance for a moment, if we take away the financial incentive to "make something of yourself" then why would people do it? Why put yourself through years of hard work and stress to study to become a doctor, engineer, lawyer etc. if Tina down the road gets the same financial remuneration for doing nothing? Why risk losing everything, remortgaging your house, putting your life savings into a start-up business if the most you can earn is the same as Dave who works 2 hours a day as a receptionist at the local school?

A system which rewards everyone equally regardless of their input effectively punishes those who contribute whilst rewarding those who don't
 
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