University shooting in the US

Mr_White · 16 Apr 2007 at 17:57

SB118 said:
If the school kid has a bad day, you can end up with aweful events such as this.

And if his victims were all armed he wouldn't of even considered doing something like this since he'd be shot dead in an instant.

Gaverick · 16 Apr 2007 at 17:58

I saw a advert for the Ross Kemp on gangs and he was interviewing teenagers in SE London and they were saying if they wanted a gun they could go round the corner and get one right there and then, he also said he has seen 10 year old's running round with Mac 10's.

Una · 16 Apr 2007 at 17:58

SB118 said:
In the UK, the only people with ready access to guns are the armed forces and the police. People don't (excluding the few folks with shotgun safes) keep guns in the house. Firearms aren't part of our culture, they're on the tv, in the cinema, not in the house, not in the school. I joined the army before i knew how to operate a gun (ok, i knew you pointed the end with a hole at the bad guys, but that was it)
If we fall out with somebody we hit them with a bat or a brick. If a kid is getting bullied, he can hide away then beat the snot out of one of his aggressors when he is on his own.

In the US, you have the right to a gun, they need a reason for you to NOT hold a gun. It's an accepted part of your culture, there is no taboo for owning a device designed for killing people.
If you fall out with somebody and you've had a bad day, you can just shot him dead. If the school kid has a bad day, you can end up with aweful events such as this.

Preaching, me? never

Hmm I see your point, obviously the normal person does not have readily access to guns like in the USA but this wouldn't stop someone who was dedicated on getting one (Providing they had the money). Im sure in the major cities it wouldn't be "that" hard if you had the resources.

SB118 · 16 Apr 2007 at 17:59

Mr Nice said:
So you've never been to South London then?

Are ther many legal licenced private guns in South London?

Psycho Ned · 16 Apr 2007 at 17:59

Saying on sky news that the gunman was looking for his girlfriend, lined the people up against the wall and shot them

Horrific.

gurusan · 16 Apr 2007 at 18:00

SB118 said:
Are ther many legal licenced private guns in South London?

How many school shootings involve legal licenced private guns?

BillytheImpaler · 16 Apr 2007 at 18:02

Mr_White said:
And if his victims were all armed he wouldn't of even considered doing something like this since he'd be shot dead in an instant.

Not that would have necessarily stopped him from trying it. It's just have made his rampage a lot shorter. They say that a growing trend in law enforcement is "suicide by cop" where in a suicidal individual will lead the police on and eventually attack them. The police respond to the perpetrator's use of deadly force with deadly force of their own, killing the perpetrator. It's not like the deranged individual who would go on one of these terrible sprees would rationally believe that you could shoot 20+ people in a public place in broad daylight and not get caught. You'd have to be suicidal in the first place to try it.

SB118 · 16 Apr 2007 at 18:03

Mr_White said:
And if his victims were all armed he wouldn't of even considered doing something like this since he'd be shot dead in an instant.

That's how the concealed weapons in the US actually help, the mugger/attcker doesn't know if the person walking on the other side of the street is going to wade in with deadly force.

Una said:
... obviously the normal person does not have readily access to guns like in the USA but this wouldn't stop someone who was dedicated on getting one (Providing they had the money). Im sure in the major cities it wouldn't be "that" hard if you had the resources.

True, but at least it puts one more stumbling block in the path of a massacre, instead of just going home and taking a gun out of a cabinet.

cheets64 · 16 Apr 2007 at 18:04

Gaverick said:
I saw a advert for the Ross Kemp on gangs and he was interviewing teenagers in SE London and they were saying if they wanted a gun they could go round the corner and get one right there and then, he also said he has seen 10 year old's running round with Mac 10's.

Ross Kemp is a muppet and I would take a everything on his "gangs" show with a pinch of salt.

SB118 · 16 Apr 2007 at 18:04

gurusan said:
How many school shootings involve legal licenced private guns?

I wasn't aware that the UK had had any shootings since Dunblaine, my bad.

Nitefly · 16 Apr 2007 at 18:05

On the Beeb its just saying that the second gunning took place 2 hours later, again fully armed? Thats just terrible how something like that could occur. Where was the security?

Admittedly, I'm sure it was a very chaotic 2 hours.

Loki · 16 Apr 2007 at 18:06

SB118 said:
In the UK, the only people with ready access to guns are the armed forces and the police. People don't (excluding the few folks with shotgun safes) keep guns in the house. Firearms aren't part of our culture, they're on the tv, in the cinema, not in the house, not in the school. I joined the army before i knew how to operate a gun (ok, i knew you pointed the end with a hole at the bad guys, but that was it)
If we fall out with somebody we hit them with a bat or a brick. If a kid is getting bullied, he can hide away then beat the snot out of one of his aggressors when he is on his own.

In the US, you have the right to a gun, they need a reason for you to NOT hold a gun. It's an accepted part of your culture, there is no taboo for owning a device designed for killing people.
If you fall out with somebody and you've had a bad day, you can just shot him dead. If the school kid has a bad day, you can end up with aweful events such as this.

Preaching, me? never

I think thats a really niave point of view. Maybe Guns aren't readily available near you but in a lot of the major cities they are readily available albeit from illegal sources. I really don't think is about somebody having a bad day or sorting some bullying issues out at all.

cheets64 · 16 Apr 2007 at 18:08

The Hungerford massacre occurred in Hungerford, Berkshire, England, on August 19, 1987. A 27-year-old unemployed local labourer, Michael Robert Ryan, armed with several weapons including an AK-47 rifle and a Beretta pistol, shot and killed sixteen people including his mother, and wounded fifteen others, then fatally shot himself. A report on this incident was commissioned by the Home Secretary, Douglas Hurd, from the Chief Constable of Thames Valley Police, Colin Smith. It remains, along with the Dunblane massacre, one of the worst criminal atrocities involving firearms in British history.

The massacre led to the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988[1], which banned the ownership of semi-automatic centre-fire rifles and restricted the use of shotguns with a magazine capacity of more than two rounds. The Hungerford Report had demonstrated that Ryan's collection of weapons was legally licensed.

Al Vallario · 16 Apr 2007 at 18:09

Nitefly said:
On the Beeb its just saying that the second gunning took place 2 hours later, again fully armed? Thats just terrible how something like that could occur. Where was the security?

Admittedly, I'm sure it was a very chaotic 2 hours.

It's not yet clear whether or not it was the same gunman, and how many gunmen there were.

Apparently the second (most deadly) shooting incident took place two hours after the first, whilst the original incident was being investigated. Students were made aware of the original incident before the second, if I understand correctly, but I suppose it was deemed as an isolated incident and not a major crisis at the time.

SB118 · 16 Apr 2007 at 18:09

Loki said:
I think thats a really niave point of view. Maybe Guns aren't readily available near you but in a lot of the major cities they are readily available albeit from illegal sources. I really don't think is about somebody having a bad day or sorting some bullying issues out at all.

That goes back to my first post, only the criminals have access to guns in the UK, if a person WANTS a gun badly enough, they will find a way of getting one. In the US they can often find a gun when they get home.

Nitefly · 16 Apr 2007 at 18:11

SB118 said:
That goes back to my first post, only the criminals have access to guns in the UK, if a person WANTS a gun badly enough, they will find a way of getting one. In the US they can often find a gun when they get home.

And along comes a response saying 'Ah, but they would have thought about it twice whilst acquiring the gun!'.

Its a circular and (now) very boring argument.

SB118 · 16 Apr 2007 at 18:18

Nitefly said:
And along comes a response saying 'Ah, but they would have thought about it twice whilst acquiring the gun!'.

Its a circular and (now) very boring argument.

But it doesn't refute the fact that guns are so much easier to get hold of in the US. :confused:

Mephisto · 16 Apr 2007 at 18:20

Hmm, coincidence that this is very close to the anniversary of the Columbine massacre? (20th).

Mephisto · 16 Apr 2007 at 18:23

SB118 said:
That goes back to my first post, only the criminals have access to guns in the UK, if a person WANTS a gun badly enough, they will find a way of getting one. In the US they can often find a gun when they get home.

Huh? What are you talking about? You can own a variety of shotguns and rifles legally in the UK.

Tom1138 · 16 Apr 2007 at 18:26

Mephisto said:
Huh? What are you talking about? You can own a variety of shotguns and rifles legally in the UK.

Precisley the kind of gun has been said yet. Could be anything.

Unfortunately its just another story of someone whos been bullied, or dumped or numerous other things and they suddenly thought to take revenge. If they are so upset, why couldn't they do the decent thing and shoot them self at home?

University shooting in the US

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