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Upgrade from 9900k to Ryzen 5900x right now for gaming or wait for Zen 3d V-cache refresh?

Soldato
Joined
18 Feb 2015
Posts
5,885
Might be completely missing your point here, what do these 720p res with RT on have to do with the OP running games @ 4K? Everyone knows that the lower the res the bigger the hit the cpu takes.

I've been running Metro Exodus on Ultra @4K with DLSS, RTX Ultra with no issues at all on a 10400f.
If you think you're CPU limited then you need to know that for a fact - which means getting rid of the GPU limit, aka 720p or lower tests. If you get 60 fps minimums in that scenario then the issue isn't with the CPU.

Ive seen you showing these specific 720p, RX6800 XT graphs before.

If that is the case then no current CPU can deliver a playable experience, therefore the game isn’t optimised for current hardware. Even with the current best CPU/GPU combination, you would see no real world gain. If what you are claiming is fact, then we all need to wait a year or two before playing these games, because they are perfectly fine, for future hardware, but not what’s available now. Or better still buy a console, which is what the majority of these games are optimised for with much weaker hardware in mind.

I’ve also never said that I have no issues in Cyberpunk especially. It runs like absolute s…. I’ve even said previously that Cyberpunk is the only game where I see my CPU usage go quite high.

Of course there are the odd few games that would play better on future CPU,s, but upgrading a 9900k to anything else at the minute is absolutely pointless. It’s not going to be a game changer. On you graphs only;)

The reason for graphs is because that's how we separate reality from subjective experience, and more importantly it's sharable and accessible by more than one person. Otherwise everyone can have their own opinion about how this or that is fine, but it's all nebulous.

How are >60fps mins not "playable"? That word must mean something different for you than 99% of the rest of the gaming population. Btw, I put Cyberpunk there not because I thought you said it runs fine but because I know for a fact that it does. Game is superbly optimised putting as much hardware as you give it to work - quite a rare feat in fact. My point was more as a comparison to Far Cry 6, and the trade-offs between them.

If you want to see what a real unoptimised game looks like, watch this:
PVzBYSZ.jpg

Bonus Round, which is which of the 4: Control, Crysis 3, Doom Eternal, The Division 2. And which one is "optimised"?
WkWtgp2.jpg
 
Soldato
Joined
28 May 2007
Posts
16,792
If you think you're CPU limited then you need to know that for a fact - which means getting rid of the GPU limit, aka 720p or lower tests. If you get 60 fps minimums in that scenario then the issue isn't with the CPU.



The reason for graphs is because that's how we separate reality from subjective experience, and more importantly it's sharable and accessible by more than one person. Otherwise everyone can have their own opinion about how this or that is fine, but it's all nebulous.

How are >60fps mins not "playable"? That word must mean something different for you than 99% of the rest of the gaming population. Btw, I put Cyberpunk there not because I thought you said it runs fine but because I know for a fact that it does. Game is superbly optimised putting as much hardware as you give it to work - quite a rare feat in fact. My point was more as a comparison to Far Cry 6, and the trade-offs between them.

If you want to see what a real unoptimised game looks like, watch this:
PVzBYSZ.jpg

Bonus Round, which is which of the 4: Control, Crysis 3, Doom Eternal, The Division 2. And which one is "optimised"?
WkWtgp2.jpg

Interesting and point made I think.

Did you do this analysis yourself?
 
Soldato
Joined
28 May 2007
Posts
16,792
Yup. The horror graph was me testing a game today, rest are saved runs from other times. Capframex is a great tool for this.

Interesting. A firm I work with is looking for someone to do some analysis like this.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Feb 2015
Posts
5,885
I said Cyberpunk was unplayable, not 60fps minimum. What is your setup, and what settings are you using? Something from the future I hope?

Might be better to post some graphs showing a 9900k at 4k vs whatever it is you think worth upgrading to. Especially what will make a sizeable difference in games at 4k.

For CPU you need 5800X or better for 60 fps mins, with RT on, for off you can refer to the previous graph on my first post you replied to. What res and how high the settings, will obviously depend on your GPU. Amusingly enough some people get a bigger penalty through ultra volumetric fog & psycho SSR than the raytracing settings, they just don't realise it. Of course, you don't necessarily need a 3090, a 2060 is mighty capable too, but at the appropriate resolution.

wocvtCB.jpg



"Optimised" Settings guide:
Code:
UPDATE: As of 1.1 the Cascaded Shadow Range has been fixed. Recommended setting is now HIGH.
UPDATE: Volumetric Cloud Quality adds/removes the clouds in the Badlands.
UPDATE: Subsurface scattering does work properly when Ray Tracing is enabled.
UPDATE: In the video HIGH is selected for Level of Detail due to an editing error, but the recommendation is LOW.

Best Settings Results:
Texture Quality: HIGH
Film Grain: OFF
Chromatic Aberration: OFF
Depth of Field: OFF
Lens Flare: OFF
Motion Blur: OFF
Contact Shadows: ON
Improved Facial Lighting Geometry: ON
Anisotropy: 8x
Local Shadow Mesh Quality: HIGH
Local Shadow Quality: HIGH
Cascaded Shadows Range: HIGH
Cascaded Shadows Resolution: MED
Distant Shadows Resolution: HIGH
Volumetric Fog Resolution: LOW
Volumetric Cloud Quality: OFF
Max Dynamic Decals: OFF
Screen Space Reflections Quality: OFF
Subsurface Scattering Quality: HIGH
Ambient Occlusion: LOW
Color Precision: MED
Mirror Quality: HIGH
Level of Detail (LOD): LOW
 
Soldato
Joined
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Posts
5,885
Here’s the thing though, in that video Bang4Buck, he’s also not getting 60fps minimum and that’s on a 5950x. Also the bottom video he’s using a 7700k. Surely if what you are saying is correct, that it would need a 5800x minimum to play then why show a video using a 7700k? Do you have any comparisons between a 9900k and 5800x, because again I doubt it would make a difference in Cyberpunk especially using these optimised settings.

I am tempted to reinstall Cyberpunk and try the optimised settings you mention. It is the only game as I’ve said before that I see my CPU utilisation go higher than 50%.

When I say min, I refer to the lower ends, 0.2%, 1%, 2%, 5% etc because those are what define the experience. You could have 99.9999% flawless experience but a traversal stutter drop you below it and your min looks like it's very low but it's not like that, that's why frametime graphs are more useful and ofc why you look at 720p results for pure CPU performance. I posted the B4B video for an overall picture of PC performance not just CPU, but in his case it's more GPU bound as you can see that by following the power usage for GPU & gpu load. Nonetheless, as you can see it's perfectly playable and enjoyable.
 
Soldato
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Location
Planet Earth
In CB2077 you are mostly GPU limited at 4K with any modern dGPU once you use RT. It was the same with the original Crysis which technically was very CPU limited too,but at normal playing resolutions at launch the game was very GPU limited - it took years later when GPUs were sufficiently powerful to show this.

Plus if we are going to play the game of needing a fast CPU for RT,the OP might as well wait a few more years. 2023 CPUs with DDR5 are going to be quicker than what we have now,and dGPUs will be even faster with more RT performance,so surely a current CPU will be considered a "bottleneck" by then? ATM,RT isn't a key feature in many games,and the reality unless you use DLSS,you are going to having more issues hitting 60FPS in RT heavy games at 4K with RT fully activated.

Edit!!

Another,IIRC,Intel was generally core for core faster than AMD in this game even with an RTX3090:
https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/cyberpunk-2077-cpu-scaling-benchmarks

https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/VQMj8F8on5wMsqj8qxe4X-970-80.png

GameGPU has also done some CPU tests too:
https://gamegpu.com/action-/-fps-/-tps/cyberpunk-2077-v-1-2-test-gpu-cpu

https://imgur.com/a/FitgwPa

HWo6yYz.png

I7DN6qI.png

IxYplbe.png

LCC6SCV.png


Once you increase settings,its hard to hit 60FPS at 4K.
 
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