Upgrading from 2500k (It's been a while...)

[Robba44]

Hey All,

I'm looking at finally upgrading my trusty i5 2500k after 7 years of faithful service. Been out of the loop mostly since then as I haven't had to upgrade my rig apart from my GPU 2 years ago and replacing my HDD with an SSD the year before that.

Looking at reviews and prices it seems my best options are the i5 9600K and the 2700X. I'm all for supporting the little guy but since my usage is going to be 98% gaming i think the i5 just about takes the win. I just want a second pair of eyes to make sure I'm getting parts that work together to avoid any nasty surprises.

CPU: i5 9600k

Mobo: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/asro...cket-1151-ddr4-atx-motherboard-mb-16h-ak.html

RAM: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/team...-3600mhz-dual-channel-kit-blac-my-0a3-tg.html

These seem ok? I also need to replace my PSU as my current one is on its way out (random PC restarts).

PSU: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/cors...lar-power-supply-cp-9020103-uk-ca-221-cs.html

Think this one should be more than adequate as the rest of my rig is 1 x SSD and a GTX 1060.

Lastly can anyone recommend a liquid cooler for the CPU? Always used air coolers so not really sure what to look out for here.

Much appreciated!

 

[twistedheat]

Given you've had your last CPU for 7 years, I suspect you plan on having your next CPU for a significant time as well?

In which case, I think you'll likely really regret (in the medium to long term) not going for the extra cores/threads of the 2700x.

Do you plan to play on 60hz, 120/144hz, or 240hz?

 

[Robba44]

I usually like to get the most out of my purchases yes but I would have upgraded sooner if the need was there. Luckily there has been little need to upgrade at all until now (and I could still probably push it a bit more). Good point about the extra cores/threads though; I suspect you're right especially if next gen consoles release soonish and push development even further in the multi-core direction.

As for your last question I am on 60hz and dont see this changing soon.

 

[twistedheat]

I usually like to get the most out of my purchases yes but I would have upgraded sooner if the need was there. Luckily there has been little need to upgrade at all until now (and I could still probably push it a bit more). Good point about the extra cores/threads though; I suspect you're right especially if next gen consoles release soonish and push development even further in the multi-core direction.

As for your last question I am on 60hz and dont see this changing soon.

Ok well that's 100% settled it.

Intel will have no advantage over AMD for pushing 60fps (it typically shows its advantages currently when trying to push 100+ fps), and in the future you will see increased longevity vs intel by having the extra cores and threads.

I think the 2700x is a no brainer in your situation.

I know you kind of had your mind made up and it's probably a bit annoying to have someone come and say something to make you doubt that, but I think your particular situation is pretty much a slam dunk for the 2700x.

 

[Robba44]

I suppose when you put it like that it makes more sense, thanks.

Having a quick look at AMD offers and this popped up: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/amd-...ree-480gb-ssd-online-only-bu-01g-am.html#t=a1

Seems like a decent bargain along with the PSU I mentioned above no? Not sure if I should still get liquid cooling though as this brings a cooler already.

 

[twistedheat]

I suppose when you put it like that it makes more sense, thanks.

Having a quick look at AMD offers and this popped up: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/amd-...ree-480gb-ssd-online-only-bu-01g-am.html#t=a1

Seems like a decent bargain along with the PSU I mentioned above no? Not sure if I should still get liquid cooling though as this brings a cooler already.

Tbh, I'm not well versed on Ryzen motherboards as I'm still on an Intel system myself so you might be better off researching or asking about that on the Motherboard sub-forum. I believe a B450 board is generally recommended for a mid-range build.

As for the bundle itself, I remember reading the prices on that are not updated too often and so it can sometimes work out cheaper to buy the parts individually.

Liquid cooling is a personal choice, although I'm not sure the 2700x has the overclocking headroom to make it worth it? Don't quote me on that. I believe after about 4.2ghz the voltage requirements become exponentially higher. See what you can push on the stock cooler (it's supposed to be pretty decent), as you can always change that at a later date.

As for the PSU, I think for maybe £10 more you can get a RM550x which will come with a 10 year warranty, where as the CX-M is only 5 years. You won't need the 650w anyway, so better to have the longer warranty imo.

 

[X x X]

These guys will give u good advice...
End of the day... get what u like.
There is like a zillion combinations u can do....
I would say? And i hate to say this.. but steer clear from asus... they just about gave us a bios update and we had to threaten them to do that.

And im on x99.... which does everything i need and more.......

I basically have a ryzen 2700 and they wont bother giving us bios updates...

 

[EsaT]

PSU: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/cors...lar-power-supply-cp-9020103-uk-ca-221-cs.html

Seems like a decent bargain along with the PSU I mentioned above no? Not sure if I should still get liquid cooling though as this brings a cooler already.

Corsair is overcharging their own tax for low end PSU with outdated medieval efficiency.
Here's lot better more modern Antec for cheaper with seven year warranty:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/ante...plus-gold-modular-power-supply-ca-24n-an.html
And this is fully modular with 10 year warranty:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/antec-hcg-gold-650w-80-plus-gold-modular-power-supply-ca-24w-an.html

If you're going to stay in mainstream or GPU's chosen for power consumption also 550W would be enough.
But 650W basically allows throwing in almost any graphics card without thinking.


If you don't care much about noise then AMD's stock cooler actually does quite well.
But AMD's automatic core clock boosting uses also temperature as one parameter.
So aftermarket cooler can increase also gaming performance besides noise.
But there's no real sense typical overhyped water pipe coolers.
I mean this is one step behind best heatpipe coolers:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/scythe-scmg-5100-mugen-5-cpu-cooler-hs-046-sy.html

You have to pay really lot more to actually get any better cooling performance per noise with waterpipes.
Water pipes in place of heatpipes doesn't make heat magically disappear and pump is just another noise source, like usually bigger number of fans.
Also waterpipe coolers have many more failure possibilities and degradation/failure ways.
So to keep high reliability you would need to pay for high quality parts and then also do some maintence.
While heat pipe cooler can be just forgotten there, with fan being only wearing part.
Whose failure can't damage PC and only decreases cooling power.

 

[orbitalwalsh]

CODE
My basket at Overclockers UK:

• 1 x Intel Core i5-9600K 3.7GHz (Coffee Lake) Socket LGA1151 Processor - OEM= £269.99
• 1 x Gigabyte Z390 UD Intel Z390 (Socket 1151) DDR4 ATX Motherboard= £119.99
• 1 x Team Group Vulcan T-Force 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-24000C16 3000MHz Dual Channel Kit - Grey (TLGD416G30= £109.99

Total: £510.47 (includes shipping: £10.50)
​

better board then ASrock by a good bit, better then most z390 and z370 and its the budget entry. personally would try and push 8700k over 8600/9600k but least you can always slap in 9th gen if needed in a few years but doubt you'll need to

overclock to 5ghz + with a good cooler!

 

[Orange]

CODE
My basket at Overclockers UK:

• 1 x Intel Core i5-9600K 3.7GHz (Coffee Lake) Socket LGA1151 Processor - OEM= £269.99
• 1 x Gigabyte Z390 UD Intel Z390 (Socket 1151) DDR4 ATX Motherboard= £119.99
• 1 x Team Group Vulcan T-Force 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-24000C16 3000MHz Dual Channel Kit - Grey (TLGD416G30= £109.99

Total: £510.47 (includes shipping: £10.50)
​

better board then ASrock by a good bit, better then most z390 and z370 and its the budget entry. personally would try and push 8700k over 8600/9600k but least you can always slap in 9th gen if needed in a few years but doubt you'll need to

overclock to 5ghz + with a good cooler!

What cooler would you recommend?
Would a cryorig h7 do it?
I was looking at the 3200mhz memory, I assume it won't make any difference apart from price?
Any thoughts on the z390 MSI tomahawk board?

 

[orbitalwalsh]

What cooler would you recommend?
Would a cryorig h7 do it?
I was looking at the 3200mhz memory, I assume it won't make any difference apart from price?
Any thoughts on the z390 MSI tomahawk board?

Not to much, if your cashing FPS or rather min frame rate then 1-3 FPS .

VRMs aren't as good, bios is nicer . Gigabyte took this round, and MSI beat them with B450/z370 boards .
Gigabyte threw the kitchen sink in , had to . Asus now going through the same bashing

 

[WantoN]

I’d say 2700X. If the intel choice was higher end then I’d lean towards a 9700K or 9900K. But out of the two you’re proposing the AMD is a no brainer.

Now that there’s proper competition, and core count seems a big part of the race, we’ll likely see games and applications levying many-core setups more than ever. Given you’re happy to keep your kit for a sensible for a sensible amount of time, I couldn’t recommend the 9600K.

Real world difference in gaming is not noticeable, and I truly believe that the difference is just down to how new Zen still is. I think future titles will close the gap entirely.

The other benefit you have is knowing that the AM4 socket is here to stay until 2020. If you want a nice CPU upgrade later down the line, a more modern chip will be available without the need to change your motherboard, reinstall windows etc etc.

Also, have you considered the MM, or second hand in general? You could pick up an 8700K and Mobo for about the same price, and that’s a monster of a chip.

EXIT: ignore the comment on the MM, I realise now that you are not yet worthy of its greatness. Second hand could still be an option.

 

[slim01]

Just done the same thing, 2500k is finally showing it's age. #rip2500k

However... Note.. that for now, I took only a £120 punt to go up to a (6 year old) i7 4770k (just hope to last me a year or two).

So from my experience... My advice is...
If 98% gaming is your need - Consider first getting a 1080ti, or even a 2080 for futreproofing, THEN upgrade a CPU.
Your 1060 is quite weak, and will be your bottleneck in most (likely all) of your games, and no CPU will help you get much higher FPS (likely min FPS will go up though).

This has been true for me so far - Despite a 4.3ghz OC (vs 4.0 on the 2500k), new 2400mhz ram (vs 1600mhz), Performance is quite literally NOT really different to my 2500k - Even at 4.3ghz. Why? Because at 1440p/4k the GPU is still the bottleneck, in the games I play, despite one - Assassins Creed: Origins.

You might be quite miffed if you spend £500+ on a cpu/mobo, and get exactly the same fps the gtx1060 can provide.

So... DEPENDS on;
a) the games you'll be playing the next 6-12months (do they require 4+ cores/threads to run smooth? Eg AC-O).
b) the res you game at - At anything over 1080p, a gtx1060 is almost *CERTAINLY* your bottleneck.
c) the refresh rate of your monitor (do you only game @ 60fps?)
d) Whether or not you've already OC'ed the 2500k?
e) How rich you are


People who have spend £500+ on new systems will likely disagree with me - So please see this - Where an OC 4770k (similar to a 2500k) performs almost IDENTICALLY to a £500 intel, even on "cpu intensive titles";
*Note - Obviously at 1080p, if you game at 60fps, you should almost negate any performance difference over 60fps, as it's impossible to see it on a 60hz monitor*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kB...u4dap1qwbcy4fcx4ixwrk0h00410.1541647929748676



So you might be better off buying the parts NOW, that you put can into your "2019 build";
-GPU (for sure),
-Cooling/Fan controllers etc (if you haven't already OC'd the 2500k, which is crazy if you haven't, they are EPIC OCers), *check future sockets supported*
-PSU/Storage etc



If buying a new cpu anyway;
From my research, personally, I'd not buy anything now that's not at LEAST an 8 core. It's nice Intel are finally doing 6core i5's, but a few years too late IMO.
I (like many others) believe games will REALLY start to use 10... 20... 30 cores... Soon. Making these 6/8 cores garbage compared to the AMDs. Not garbage, but certainly not worth £500 - £700 for gaming cpus. Plus AMD's longevity in their AM4 platform.

Also, worth mentioning, I didn't realise that in most (as in over half) of the games tested online actually run WORSE with hyper-threading on... i7's are still currently not much better than i5's... This might change in future though.
Reason I even upgraded was I played assassins creed and quantum break on 2500k and got like 25fps on a gtx1080, so assumed 2500k had finally had its day. I looked into it and heard these games, among a few others I intend to play, like at LEAST 4cores, 4 threads, even at 1440p, where USUALLY (97% of games) the gtx 1080 would STILL be a bottleneck.


Hope this helps bud.. took me ages to write this!

 

[slim01]

Also... Some new AMD's just around the corner, and a few people have said their budget is now going into higher mhz on cores, not just more cores... So Intels edge may become rather small.

 

[EsaT]

So you might be better off buying the parts NOW, that you put can into your "2019 build";
-GPU (for sure),
-Cooling/Fan controllers etc (if you haven't already OC'd the 2500k, which is crazy if you haven't, they are EPIC OCers), *check future sockets supported*
-PSU/Storage etc

If buying a new cpu anyway;
From my research, personally, I'd not buy anything now that's not at LEAST an 8 core. It's nice Intel are finally doing 6core i5's, but a few years too late IMO.
I (like many others) believe games will REALLY start to use 10... 20... 30 cores... Soon.

When being able to do PC upgrades without help, it's definitely worth it to buy such parts which can be easily moved/"recycled" to next PC separately when ever convenient.
Or when available for good price etc.
Good PSU can basically last lifetime of two PC builts.
Case even more. (have now over 10 years old case)
Also case/cooling accessories are usually easy to keep. (wish had gotten Aquaero earlier)


6c/6t is indeed too little for PC which should last longer.
At least when lacking proper upgrade path. (another CPU of same 3y old architecture isn't that)
But while things like AI and physics modeling can be easily multithreaded, many other areas of games can't be multithreaded heavily.
So there definitely isn't any rush toward some 20 core CPUs.
At least until power/heat budget allows that without any effect to available boost clocks for cores running non-multithreading serial mode code of critical primary threads.

Also... Some new AMD's just around the corner, and a few people have said their budget is now going into higher mhz on cores, not just more cores... So Intels edge may become rather small.

Instead of renaming like most recent Intel updates, Zen2 is proper architectural improvement increasing performance per clock cycle.
For resource/time reasons Zen"1" even had performance compromising known bottlenecks/weaknesses, which will now get fixes.
And instead of originally designed for mobile CPUs manufacturing node of GlobalFoundries, TSMC's 7nm node of Zen2 CPUs has been designed for high performance from the start, likely giving nice clock speed boost.
So Intel's single thread performance advantage is unlikely to continue, except in Intel favouring code.

 

[WantoN]

When being able to do PC upgrades without help, it's definitely worth it to buy such parts which can be easily moved/"recycled" to next PC separately when ever convenient.
Or when available for good price etc.
Good PSU can basically last lifetime of two PC builts.
Case even more. (have now over 10 years old case)
Also case/cooling accessories are usually easy to keep. (wish had gotten Aquaero earlier)


6c/6t is indeed too little for PC which should last longer.
At least when lacking proper upgrade path. (another CPU of same 3y old architecture isn't that)
But while things like AI and physics modeling can be easily multithreaded, many other areas of games can't be multithreaded heavily.
So there definitely isn't any rush toward some 20 core CPUs.
At least until power/heat budget allows that without any effect to available boost clocks for cores running non-multithreading serial mode code of critical primary threads.

Instead of renaming like most recent Intel updates, Zen2 is proper architectural improvement increasing performance per clock cycle.
For resource/time reasons Zen"1" even had performance compromising known bottlenecks/weaknesses, which will now get fixes.
And instead of originally designed for mobile CPUs manufacturing node of GlobalFoundries, TSMC's 7nm node of Zen2 CPUs has been designed for high performance from the start, likely giving nice clock speed boost.
So Intel's single thread performance advantage is unlikely to continue, except in Intel favouring code.

I agree entirely. For the first time in a long while Intel are on the ropes. They’re rent desperate attempts demonstrate this. I love how they tried to rain on AMD’s parade days before their conference, by announcing a very high core monolithic chip. AMD’s response of “Oh that’s nice, here’s ours, it makes yours look very silly and expensive” made me chuckle.

I’ve gone second hand for my new project, otherwise I’d have gone AMD. I’m quite keen to support them at the moment; I want to see competition for years to come, and I’ll happily contribute to that in any way I can.

Zen2 is shaping up to be a really, really excellent product, if I were in the market for a new system I’d be quite excited.

 

[slim01]

I’ve gone second hand for my new project, otherwise I’d have gone AMD. I’m quite keen to support them at the moment; I want to see competition for years to come, and I’ll happily contribute to that in any way I can.

Zen2 is shaping up to be a really, really excellent product, if I were in the market for a new system I’d be quite excited.

I really REALLY hope my next rig will be an AMD, would love to support them. Let's hope Zen2 can give the gamers the fps they need.

 

[Robba44]

Just done the same thing, 2500k is finally showing it's age. #rip2500k

Hope this helps bud.. took me ages to write this!

Hey man thanks for the detailed response! I am definitely going for the 2700X then as it seems the best choice right now. I am actually going to wait until Black Friday since it is just around the corner to hopefully get some good deals.

I see some of you mentioned upgrading the gpu first and I see the logic but my father's pc could use a cpu/mobo/ram upgrade and my current ones will be more than enough for his needs. I will definitely have to look at replacing my 1060 soon if I want to keep gaming at increased settings.

Any ideas when the new Ryzen cpus are due out? Do you think its worth the wait?

Thanks again for the replies!

 

[slim01]

Hey man thanks for the detailed response! I am definitely going for the 2700X then as it seems the best choice right now. I am actually going to wait until Black Friday since it is just around the corner to hopefully get some good deals.

I see some of you mentioned upgrading the gpu first and I see the logic but my father's pc could use a cpu/mobo/ram upgrade and my current ones will be more than enough for his needs. I will definitely have to look at replacing my 1060 soon if I want to keep gaming at increased settings.

Any ideas when the new Ryzen cpus are due out? Do you think its worth the wait?

Thanks again for the replies!

NP man, just saw your post and realised you were in the same boat, so happy to give my 2 cents on my recent test.
As mentioned though, my new cpu/ram only cost me £140 (about £50 after selling 2500k and mobo). Although old games perform similarly, the increased minimum fps and having the 'games that require 4c/4threads gap' filled for now is great, I'm happy.

Just remember - If you're buying components for a gaming rig on a budget, always make sure 100% that as much of the budget you CAN spare is going into GPU. Usually about 50% of the budget I find right in gaming rigs. More nowadays since Nvida have no competition.
-You don't need 4000mhz ram with fancy LEDs, £800 "extreme" cpu's, £150 water coolers etc etc. Gpus will (and almost always have/will) account for the largest majority of FPS. So many times I see people complaining "ahhhh my new £1500 pc can't run Crysis 3/BF/Far Cry on Ultra".

 

[slim01]

Just dont expect miracles from a cpu and you'll be well impressed - These AMDs are fantastic bargains. It's great they own that part of the market again.

Let us know here what you got! and what black friday deal you found! OCUK usually have good prices.