UPS is a must? Question about new pc

[sewerino26]

Hi. I bought pc with 8700K and 1080 ti. And my question is. Getting UPS is a must or normal power strip will enough? I dont have power outages or something like that. Maybe 1-2 outages during year ,thats all.



This simple power cord will be enough? I dont have cash for UPS actually.



https://www.x-kom.pl/p/313624-listwa-zasilajaca-ever-classic-15m.html

Ever CLASSIC 1,5m

 

[TallPaul1878]

It's not a necessity. I've never had one but I do use a surge protector.

I've found that the surge protector helps if you get power spikes. We had 2 over Christmas and whilst the power only got cut for a split second it did not affect my PC or TV that are plugged into surge protectors.

A UPS is more for if you will be doing a lot of work, downloading etc and you can't afford for your PC to go down for long periods of time.

 

[sewerino26]

Somebody said this to me:"Don't waste you money.
That power strip (PLN 29.00 - $8.33 US) , is really just 5 unprotected outlets. It offers some protection, but very little.

It only absorbs 175 joules.
You need something that absorbs 600-700 joules minimum.

It's protection does not kick in until the over voltage reaches 400 volts.
250-300 volts would be much better.

At a minimum, to be protected, you need something like this.

Personally, for my television/surround sound system, I use a combination voltage surge suppressor / power conditioner that costs about $200 US. It does improve the picture quality

For my (expensive) music system, I use a (hospital grade) surge suppressor / power conditioner that costs over $600 US.

For my music system's DAC (Digital Audio Converter) I use a separate, linear power supply / power conditioner ($200 US)"


I dont know if he is little oversensitive? So i must waste my money for a surge protector? I Dont have problems in power in my house.

 

[EsaT]

Some "surge protectors" are indeed scams and plain power strips without actual protection components.
Usually those aren't even bigger than power strips and wouldn't have any space for needed components.
But bigger ones from APC/Belkin etc actually use bigger protection components/more of them parallel for higher surge supression capability. (besides pile of EMI/RFI filtering components)
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/anatomy-of-surge-suppressors/2/

And that isn't exactly the best person to take advice from.
For starters not knowing differences in mains voltage.
230V AC peaks above 300V 100 times per second.
So can you guess what 300V triggering limit would do in Europe?
Hint: You could simulate it by turning that red switch to 115V in old prehistoric passive-PFC power supplies.


Also digital signals aren't sensitive and modern TVs shouldn't use mains frequency to anything with digital circuitry needing own lot more precise clocks.
So claims about better picture quality are snake oil credible.
If there are actual problems that hints to some serious AC quality problems or really bad electric wiring in building.

Modern active-PFC power supply isn't even sensitive to smaller mains fluctuations.
While US with their low mains voltage doesn't have that much margin in Europe mains voltage could sag to half causing lots of dimming of most lights without causing slightest problem for most devices.
Because active-PFC power supplies are designed to operate from 110-240V voltage.

Also in PC power supplies ATX standard requires ~16 ms "hold up" time which PSU must be able to operate with zero input voltage.
Of course cheap PSUs struggle to reach that and bad fail completely.
While best PSUs like Seasonic Prime have "properly oversized" components capable to keeping PSU operating for over 30ms power cut.
Lacking battery power conditioners aren't capable to any real power outage tolerance.

And no power conditioner is capable to 100% sure blocking it if full surge from nearby lightning strike gets that far.
Bulk of surge/most of its energy should always be conducted to ground before it can enter building wiring.
And if power lines of area lack those heavier duty protections and neither there's anything where feed cable to house comes then it's better to not use PC during thunderstorm.

So power conditioners are pretty much waste of money for PC.
Quality PSU, surge suppressor and use of that superpower called as common sense give as good/better protection.

I dont have cash for UPS actually.

Funnily for expensive luxury graphics card which gets technically old in few years there is...

 

[sewerino26]

Yeah i know its funny, that pc,but dont have cash for ups etc. I take loan from bank thats why heh

So i can take this,will be fine too?
https://www.x-kom.pl/p/313624-listwa-zasilajaca-ever-classic-15m.html

Ever CLASSIC 1,5m

 

[EsaT]

Would look for something like this:
https://www.x-kom.pl/p/338499-listw...r-listwa-przeciwprzepieciowa-sb0701ad-fr.html
https://www.cyberpower.com/eu/en/product/sku/SB0701AD-FR-B
Besides stronger surge supression (1kJ) + likely better EMI filtering that spacing of sockets helps lot when connecting more wires.

This would be specced for 2 kJ:
https://www.x-kom.pl/p/338498-listw...stwa-przeciwprzepieciowa-ssb0801prg-b-fr.html

Besides capable to handling bigger surges without failing those can handle smaller surges for longer time before wearing.
Most surge supression components simply wear.
And the lower the surge is below component's rating the less it causes wear.

Also cheapest and most commonly used MOVs aren't the most durable ones with gas discharge tubes being better for high currents.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surge_protector#Gas_discharge_tube_(GDT)
Actually found couple of those from Eaton UPS I have when modding it for slower running 8cm fan instead of internal 6 cm noise maker.

 

[sewerino26]

So avoid this and not buy?

https://www.x-kom.pl/p/313624-listwa-zasilajaca-ever-classic-15m.html

Ever CLASSIC 1,5m

Like i said i must safe cash.

 

[darael]

You get what you pay for. You won't be saving anything if your cheap surge protector lets a surge pass and cook what is plugged into it.

 

[Thekwango]

A UPS is more for if you will be doing a lot of work, downloading etc and you can't afford for your PC to go down for long periods of time.

That's is not what most UPS' are designed to do. They usually give you about 10 minutes (this time can vary) to safely shut down your hardware once mains power has been lost. They aren't usually designed to keep your hardware running for long periods of time which is what you seem to be saying.

 

[Phil2008]

I dont trust my ups totally in a storm as the switch over to battery mode is about 8ms so not quite quick enough to stop surges dead and even tho its got a surge protection aswel, I dont trust that either, So I do pull out the plugs if a thunder storm gets bad.

But if Im not able to pull the plugs out during a storm, at least I know that my pc stuff is kind of safe and got more of a chance the pc is still chugging away when I return home. Plus a UPS during a storm should stop the voltage spiking a bit, because if it detects that the voltage is too high or low if will flick over to battery mode untill its returned to normal levels. Plus it stops power loss also, its a life saver if you have a 3d printer as some prints can take days to print, but you have the pray the power comes back on before the batteries die.

 

[EsaT]

So avoid this and not buy?

https://www.x-kom.pl/p/313624-listwa-zasilajaca-ever-classic-15m.html

With that surge energy rating it's likely not that much better than normal power strip.
Assuming it actually has protection components, or likely there's just one (tiny) MOV between hot/live and and neutral.
And anything but minimal voltage spikes will wear those protection components fast and bigger surges would just more easily burn it.
With risk of part of surge getting through. (moving on to stress connected device)
Better ones also include indicator light of some basic state of protection components.

The way you have better thunderstorms more often there in Poland than here in Finland I would definitely take more than minimal protection device.
Here also derechos are rare... though those are not very friendly to photograph with their ~100km/h class speed.

 

[sewerino26]

That will be fine?

https://www.x-kom.pl/p/388216-listw...a-przeciwprzepieciowa-sb0501ba-fr-5-x-pl.html

 

[NirK]

A UPS does not do that much more than a surge protector in normal use, it has batteries which will operate if you have a power outage, and it has some surge protection, the more expensive ones have voltage regulation (which is worth having), but the voltage regulation is not very precise and unless you have very unstable voltage, it would not activate anyway. Then you can get UPS which have a constant 230v with very good regulation, but these are very expensive.

I have a Furman which has very good surge protection and noise reduction, no voltage regulation or UPS. Unless you have regular power problems, I would get a Furman surge protector and if you want something better than that, get an "online" UPS which will actually be an upgrade but also expensive. Normal (cheap) surge protectors are better than nothing but they would probably not stop a large surge.

 

[Phil2008]

Its always uses the batteries with a online ups, so instead of it flicking over to batter mode when it detects a problem,, the mains power just keeps the batteries charged and the batteries send the power to your stuff, so its much safer as there's no time delay when it detects a problem.

The down side to this, it uses more power and the batteries will need changing more often.

Im just thinking I may of got that wrong, because surly the batteries would run down quicker than the ups can charge them?

 

[EsaT]

Im just thinking I may of got that wrong, because surly the batteries would run down quicker than the ups can charge them?

Double conversion/online UPSes have battery charger with higher output than inverter.
Because they have to also cover power losses in inverter besides power outputted to load.

Though there are now variations from that old basic concept to try to lower power losses.

 

[NirK]

Yes online UPS with good voltage regulation, would be good, but as I said before it is expensive and unless you have actual problems with your electricity eg. regular brown / black outs or terrible voltages etc. A furman or similar should be ok.

 

[Phil2008]

A online UPS is a good idea if you have a lot of storms, but a regular line interactive UPS with AVR is ok for this country.