Used car mis-described. What recourse do I have?

The fact it has an MOT and no cat is open and shut MOT fraud tbh.
My car has no cat but has a legit MOT.
I fit it, test it, then remove it.
Best I hand myself in :eek:
That can come with a prison sentence. If he isn't going to budge I'd open that can of worms on them. If the DVSA and police bother to look in to it, they'll probably find all sorts of other things to do them for.
The police won’t get involved as it’s a DVSA issue.
And btw, what exactly do you expect the DVSA to do ref the emissions?
How could they possibly prosecute if the seller/tester says the cat was on there when it was tested and have the emissions sheet to prove it.
 
Where have we established there's been a fraudulent act?

From my reading of it there has been no provable fraudulent act that will stand up in law.
It seems the buyer has been scammed but the perp has covered their tracks well.

The suggestion of bluffing it out with the perp seems the best option, threaten to call in as many agencies as possible such as HMRC, trading standards, DVSA etc and hope the perp caves in.
If the perp holds strong he wins.
 
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Anyway.

Just a quick google yielded others in this situation..

Here's a pertinent reply on the RAC forums, it's from 2015, but sounds like if he messes you around, start with citizens advice etc.. seemingly trading standards don't like this at all.

Under the Sale of Goods Act a trader is the same as a dealer. You have full protection under consumer law.
To prove he is a trader you need to show that he sells several cars a year and advertises them online or with For Sale boards. So you would need to print off any ads you come across or take pictures of his other cars. If he is telling you he will fill in the yellow trader/dealer section this is a warning that he is most likely a trader.
You can check if the car is currently taxed: https://www.vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/
It is not unlawful for traders or dealers to leave the previous keeper's name and address on the registration document. This was originally designed to prevent the history showing a lot of previous keepers otherwise every time a car was part exchanged, the trader would put his name on the V5c and the history would show twice as many previous owners.
You should be very wary of doorstep traders who try to hide the fact they really are car dealers and not private sales. If there is an issue he will say he sold it privately and you have no consumer protection at all.
I was tricked into the same position as yourself then discovered the car was a write off, bought in Scotland, sold to me and found to be totally unroadworthy when I properly examined it. I only got my money back when the police visited him and threatened to charge him with selling an unroadworthy car. The Dept of Transport carried out an MOT and closed the garage that issued the test certificate the previous week. A lot of hassle you can do without.
My advice is to get the deposit back and go elsewhere. If you have problems with him contact Consumer Protection: https://www.gov.uk/consumer-protection-rights
If he really becomes a lot of trouble you can report him for selling cars from his home to the planning enforcement section of the council where he lives saying he is carrying on a business without planning permission and paying the additional business rates. If he is a trader the Inland Revenue probably don't know about him either.
There are ways and means.
 
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My car has no cat but has a legit MOT.
I fit it, test it, then remove it.
Best I hand myself in :eek:
Awaits *but think of the environment/you're destroying the planet/3 degree world/think of the polar bears*

It could have well been a legit MOT, and the seller just took the cat off to sell it and fitted a decat then sold the car, given how much OEM cat's are worth!

But my moneys on the usual run up another car next to it and use that for emissions trick.

***Image removed due to not fully starring swearing***
 
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My car has no cat but has a legit MOT.
I fit it, test it, then remove it.
Best I hand myself in :eek:
that is quite the loophole which should be closed TBH. I mean so long as it is legal then you do what you want.... but really if cat is required for passing an MOT then deliberately removing it and driving without one should be an offence imo.

(i mean isnt it kind of the same logic which VW used to pass their emissions tests and they got in trouble over that)
 
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It is an offence, but the police don't bother to enforce it. It's pretty obvious from the smell when a car doesn't have a cat.

Might be issues if the car is written off and your insurer notices there isn't a cat though, as the car isn't road legal.
 
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It is an offence, but the police don't bother to enforce it. It's pretty obvious from the smell when a car doesn't have a car.

Might be issues if the car is written off and your insurer notices there isn't a cat though, as the car isn't road legal.
From what I can see there is no specific offence for driving without a cat as long as it still runs within the emissions limits.
 
From what I can see there is no specific offence for driving without a cat as long as it still runs within the emissions limits.

The law was updated at some point to include tampering with any emissions controls. It was when dieselgate was at it's peak I think.

They can fine and impound the car.
 
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that is quite the loophole which should be closed TBH. I mean so long as it is legal then you do what you want.... but really if cat is required for passing an MOT then deliberately removing it and driving without one should be an offence imo.

(i mean isnt it kind of the same logic which VW used to pass their emissions tests and they got in trouble over that)
It is, if you get caught by a road traffic officer with the testing equipment, IIRC fine in the thousands and car gets impounded/defected until retested, then police have to see the MOT sheet...

There was a stage where they were quite hot on it, but usually it's a copper pulling you finding it on a loud exhaust, out of hours with no qualified DVSA agent available to come test/prove it, so they just warn you to fix it or give you a fine for a loud exhaust etc - which can be upto IIRC 110DB anyway, so they barely enforce it, and every dick with a pop and bang map Corsa to a financed DSG Golf has flames/loud exhausts these days, and despite this no police seem to bother.

In reality though, most people do just refit it for the MOT to pass. Cat's are stupid expensive and always fail, no one wants to spend thousands replacing them, and it restricts power when tuning them.

For example, a Honda Jazz, is quite often stolen/has their cat nicked/quick and easy to cut it off, because they cost something stupid like £1800+vat my mate at Honda told me, which is why so many are sold as mot fail or with a bent MOT/no cat/cheap cat off ebay that'll barely pass 1 MOT, it's hilarious of all the cars that could have a highly valuable cat, that it's a Jazz.

Regarding insurance, you can legit declare a decat along with the rest of the exhaust, and usually if you have exhaust it doesn't matter what it is, for example, I have manifold to backbox full custom stainless, and when I was explaining it was a aftermarket manifold as well, they just stopped me and said "yeah that's fine if we've got an exhaust listed, it covers it manifold all the way back!"

The same as you can legit have as a non airbag steering wheel in an airbag steering wheel car, just refit it for MOTs. I do this on most of my cars due to being a giant and most cars have massive steering wheels that literally stop my legs being able to fit or ram them so far apart I nearly pop my hips out, to the point I get cramp/pins and needles in my clutch foot/under my thigh etc and a dead arse, and the right leg ends up being smashed into the door card and causing the same pain, so I run a smaller aftermarket wheel with an extended boss kit, to bring it away from my legs and give me a better than factory driving position.

The easiest way with any modified car is to just keep anything stock you need to pass an MOT and refit it, then take it off, I usually disable ABS/ASC on my old cars because it's nearly killed me in bad weather denying me of brakes, so I just put the fuses back in for the MOT and the system is active, then remove them afterwards - however I also do tell my insurance I have an ABS delete, and I always fit bigger brake kits to all my cars, again declared, which require minimal input to stop very well, and I just modulate the peddle if needed simulating ABS as required. Easy.

(i mean isnt it kind of the same logic which VW used to pass their emissions tests and they got in trouble over that)

Pretty sure they used a trick with the fuel map, which made it make less power/better emissions, so the car would know if it's being held at XYZ revs for the amount of time required in the variation stationary and time used for the emissions test, that it would go into that different fuel map and thus pass a test - pretty sure that was how it was done wasn't it @JonRGV250 ?

Similar to how you get a valet key when buying a car - which puts it in a limp'ish mode so no one you hand the car over to, be it a mechanic/someone to park it etc etc can abuse it.
 
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From what I can see there is no specific offence for driving without a cat as long as it still runs within the emissions limits.
2 Seconds in a search engine later...

The law​


Under the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations (Regulations 61(7) and 61A(3)) and the Road Traffic Act 1988 (Section 42) it is an offence to use on a road a vehicle which has been modified in such a way that it no longer complies with the air pollutant emissions standards it was designed to meet.

The potential penalties are £1,000 for a car and £2,500 for a van, lorry or bus.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 (Section 75) it is an offence to alter a vehicle in such a way that the use of the vehicle on a road would be unlawful. A person altering the vehicle (if they knew or believed that the vehicle would be used on the road) could be found guilty of an offence under the Act.

Potential penalties are unlimited fines.

 
Pretty sure they used a trick with the fuel map, which made it make less power/better emissions, so the car would know if it's being held at XYZ revs for the amount of time required in the variation stationary and time used for the emissions test, that it would go into that different fuel map and thus pass a test - pretty sure that was how it was done wasn't it @JonRGV250 ?
Pretty much, the German cars even know when they're on the brake testing rollers and Merc have a specific menu setting for it.

Ref what you mentioned about no airbags, non functioning ABS etc on a track car these can still pass a MOT but the car has to be "obviously" a track car and the tester has to take this into account as far as I remember.
 
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How?
As regards the MOT, the car is tested as presented by the owner on the day.
I or any other tester can’t police what the owners do to their own cars when they take them away.
absolutely... sorry if i was unclear. I was not suggesting putting any of it on the MOT tester, but I (incorrectly it seemed) assumed that by you deliberately decatting your car you were not committing an offence...... IF this was the case then i was suggesting it was a loophole and that it should be an offence to deliberately drive a car which was not fit to pass an MOT.

As it is however, its not a loophole, as it seems you ARE committing an offence.... just that no one can be bothered to try to enforce, which is your choice I guess.
 
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Pretty much, the German cars even know when they're on the brake testing rollers and Merc have a specific menu setting for it.

Ref what you mentioned about no airbags, non functioning ABS etc on a track car these can still pass a MOT but the car has to be "obviously" a track car and the tester has to take this into account as far as I remember.
Thought so, those sneaky Germans eh hahaha!

Yeah, is the old myth about IF ABS is fully removed it will pass? I was under the impression with was an old wives tale, as it falls under the old "if it had it from factory it still has to have it" like cats?

Either way I just fit the stock airbag wheel/put the 3 fuses back in to reactive the ABS/ASC for the MOT haha.

TBF though, some aftermarket bosses come with a plug/resistor to complete the SRS system, so makes the light turn off at the right time - I use this trick for my Recaros, where the stock seats had airbags, but obviously if you went for a test with a dashboard airbag/system working but no steering wheel airbag it would be a bit "you wot m9" :cry:
 
There was a stage where they were quite hot on it

Police around here take an interesting approach, their general policy is quite a light touch with regard to modifications unless it is causing an anti-social problem or relevant to dangerous/careless driving but if they pull someone for one of those or excessive speeding - they'll do the car with a fine tooth comb and do them for everything they can.
 
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