Last edited:
Valve Slammed By Consumer Protection, Issued Cease And Desist On Anti-Consumerist EULA
- Thread starter Divinious
- Start date
No, you seem to be in denial over the EU ruling, as if it never happened or is totally irrelevant.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 16 May 2005
- Posts
- 31,297
- Location
- Manchester
I'm sure that they'd love to do that if they could get away with it.
However, one of the reasons Steam does so well is that it is perceived as easier (or at least no more difficult) than piracy. As soon as you lower the perceived value a lot of customers may reconsider those eye patches that are gathering dust in their drawers.
I think your stumbled upon the real issue, but missed the point.
Unless I'm mistaken that is why the EU needs to ensure there is some protection for consumers. Currently there is nothing stopping steam from doing just that, for whatever reason, thinking they wont unfortunately does not constitute legal protection for the millions of steam users.
I kind of am, yes.
I do not believe the ruling is enforceable in its current form owing to its vagueness and loopholes which is not unusual for new laws, especially in the EU when the practicalities are discovered and certain groups begin lobbying.
I believe you aren't in denial for those reasons though. People so far are unable to give a good reason as for why the games industry should be entitled to no second hand sales.
I believe you've hyped up in your head that all these terrible things will happen based on wild conjecture and are getting worked up over that.
I believe you've hyped up in your head that all these terrible things will happen based on wild conjecture and are getting worked up over that.
It is not just the games industry, this will affect all consumable media going forward and is not workable, in my opinion.
Movies
Music
News Agencies
TV Companies
All of these have lots of money behind them and will not sit back and watch as this happens. It is not in their interests.
This is their chance to change things in their favour going forward and I believe they will, regardless of what rights you think you should have as a consumer.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Dec 2006
- Posts
- 9,262
- Location
- Saudi Arabia né Donegal
A used key redistributed through Steam or whatever means wouldn't constitute a second hand sale though. Second hand generally denotes a lesser product, in the case of a second hand digital sale it's identical to the original.
I honestly don't have any answers as to how they could resolve this either, I just don't believe that second hand sales could work without seriously damaging the industry.
There are some good ideas in the thread (for example returning games for a future discount might be the most practical) and certainly the games industry could do with paying a bit more attention to the rights of the consumer (for example at what point is a game so buggy that it is not fit for purpose and a refund should be issued) but I just don't believe second hand sales would work in a purely digital marketplace.
I agree with what you say apart from the above.
Second-hand denotes a product that has already been purchased at the retail level. Said product can be in the same condition as when originally purchased at retail level. All depends on how your defining "lesser" Warranty, service agreements... .
I did noticed the term "generally".
Last edited:
As gaming moves further and further into the realms of digital distribution (and frankly, the same goes for music and films and books) the more damage a second hand market has potential to do.
You're going to damage new sales (and thus publisher and developer income) in a way that hasn't been experienced before. If you want a second hand game now, you can get one (for a console) but for your cheaper price you get, more often than not, a tatty box, a tea stained manual and scratched disc. There's a quality vs price tradeoff. Same goes for films, and similar for books, they'll be dog eared, spines bent etc.
With entirely digital copies though, there is absolutely no quality difference, there is absolutely no distinction between and new and used, so the used product becomes infinitely more attractive as there is no quality trade off to worry about any more, you get quite literally exactly the same product, in a way that has never been possible before.
Now, personally I don't think outright banning second hand sales is the answer but nor is what the EU has currently tried to enforce, which is to make everyone allow completely unrestricted second hand selling.
It will damage the industry as they will lose revenue, there's not really any two ways about that unless the legislation is changed.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 20 Dec 2004
- Posts
- 7,297
- Location
- Tamworth
I never said they would, it was a suggested alternative to what we have now. Besides, never say never.
Most likely at the moment is that games go free to play and monetised in a different way to they are now. Either microtransactions or even advertising.
What's to stop them?
I don't think it would make access any more difficult. The only thing that would change is how we pay and what we had access to for the price we paid. It wouldn't be any harder than choosing a TV package.
Last edited:
It all comes down to how people view digital products. I view them as a consumable, not as a commodity. I am paying for x hours of entertainment. I cannot resell that time as it has for all intents and purposes been consumed.
As, as previously mentioned, there is no distrinction between a first-hand and second-hand user with digital products, resale does not work. And why should it? It's not unusual to pick up a new title for £20. If it is then sold on for £10 but the second-hand user has the resale rights waived, the effective retail price of the product is £10. All this will lead to is a price hike where the first-hand product will now cost £40. Even with resale the effective retail price under this model would be the desired £20. Who benefits? No one.
As, as previously mentioned, there is no distrinction between a first-hand and second-hand user with digital products, resale does not work. And why should it? It's not unusual to pick up a new title for £20. If it is then sold on for £10 but the second-hand user has the resale rights waived, the effective retail price of the product is £10. All this will lead to is a price hike where the first-hand product will now cost £40. Even with resale the effective retail price under this model would be the desired £20. Who benefits? No one.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 20 Dec 2004
- Posts
- 7,297
- Location
- Tamworth
I'm the same.
There have been many times I've bought a game for £3.74 in a Steam sale and based it's value on how many hours a got out of the game for the price paid.
Nobody is forcing publishers to switch to digital content, the fact is they are only pushing it for their own selfish reasons:
> Cheaper to manufacture and therefore bigger profits (a digital version of Mists of Pandoria is £30 from Blizzard and £28 in shops with several discs, case and manual), that is not a rare occurence.
> They can more easily enforce measures to lock products down to a single user and make selling it on impossible by using their own proprietary software such as Steam, Origin etc.
All it really boils down to is the software industry has cleverly engineered a state (in an emerging virtual market) where they hold all of the cards at the expense of consumers, now law is catching up with them and they are screaming that it'll be armageddon if consumers are given the rights they had to begin with back.
Sure, digital distribution is better for the environment and to a lot of people more convenient but that has nothing to do with basic consumer rights.
> Cheaper to manufacture and therefore bigger profits (a digital version of Mists of Pandoria is £30 from Blizzard and £28 in shops with several discs, case and manual), that is not a rare occurence.
> They can more easily enforce measures to lock products down to a single user and make selling it on impossible by using their own proprietary software such as Steam, Origin etc.
All it really boils down to is the software industry has cleverly engineered a state (in an emerging virtual market) where they hold all of the cards at the expense of consumers, now law is catching up with them and they are screaming that it'll be armageddon if consumers are given the rights they had to begin with back.
Sure, digital distribution is better for the environment and to a lot of people more convenient but that has nothing to do with basic consumer rights.
Last edited:
The same could be said of physical copies, once they're installed they're the same as the day they came out and even if the manual/case is missing they're still identical to digital versions. You get more for your money with a physical copy whether it's 'a bit tatty' or not.
I prefer digital distribution, why go back to the olden days?
I personally believe it will be bad for the industry, I am able to form my opinion, this has nothing to do with what anyone in the industry has said.
You say "Given rights back" but what have those rights been pertaining to digital media what we have lost?
I believe as far as the EU goes, this is not going to assist the growth of digital distribution or be better for consumers in the long run.
The back cover will feature the old style SSA logo or newer titles have the regular Steam logo.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Sep 2009
- Posts
- 30,309
- Location
- Dormanstown.
They do.
Indeed. the new agreement is BS, and the fact some people don't realise it appals me. It's not just Steam either, anyone offering digital distribution services with draconian terms and conditions need to be brought down a peg or two.
I do like steam but I do believe what is best for the CONSUMER and not the COMPANY. I bet all the fanboys will change their tune if they ever can't access their ££££ games collection for one reason or another.
I do like steam but I do believe what is best for the CONSUMER and not the COMPANY. I bet all the fanboys will change their tune if they ever can't access their ££££ games collection for one reason or another.