Violence in Selfridges and "drill music"

[dowie]

Nature is healing now in London, things are starting to open up and the urban youth are back to their antics again:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1391161450023038981

https://twitter.com/x/status/1391152205105872896

But who is this "Bandokay" person the above tweet mentions as being involved in this "beef", which resulted in one person being stabbed and several arrests?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OFB_(group)

OFB rapper Bandokay, whose real name is Kemani Duggan, is the son of Mark Duggan, the man whose death by police shooting led to the 2011 England Riots.[1][2] Bandokay credited music for keeping him away from crime, and stated his desire to be away from police as a motivator:[1]

Oh, that's a familiar name! (LOL at the last bit though, I'm sure he and all his buddies in his drill group have nothing at all to do with gang violence and crime, the police must just be harassing them for no reason etc..). Oh they did publish a video filmed in prison by a member of their group currently serving time for murder though:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-rapper-17-uploads-new-21693567

The Guardian published a piece on him too:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...one-helps-us-round-here-music-is-the-only-way

“I’m trying to get out the hood, and the easiest way of doing that is making music,” says Bandokay. “It’s my way of escaping gang life and achieving a better life. I wanna move my mum into a house. Music puts legal money into my account. No one helps us round here. So music is the only way.”

Sure... seems like an easier way might be to not join a gang, stay in school and then get some qualifications but I guess he's got some rather dubious role models.

This all seems massively flawed, I'm aware of the capacity for this stuff to be a moral panic, I don't believe that music itself makes people violent any more than say violent video games. The issue here perhaps though is the culture surrounding this type of music, that lots of this stuff relies on the reputation of the individuals or groups creating it. It doesn't appear to be something that is necessarily conditional on raw musical talent, rather if you're a member of a known gang and that gang has some credibility then that seems to be a significant part of the marketing in the drill scene ergo it seems pretty flawed as a way to escape gang stuff.

Is this "Bandokay" character even a good rapper or is he just riding on the reputation of his late father and/or the gang members he hangs out with?

Frankly I think we need tougher sentences for carrying a knife, especially in a context like this - if you pull out a knife in the middle of a busy shop like that with loads of members of the public around then you should be looking at the maximum sentence for possession of a knife.

 

[dowie]

Stop the central line stopping at Tottenham court road and Oxford cirrcus and then all the **** east London kids dont bother going there.

This OFB drill group ("Original Farm Boys") are from Broadwater Farm council estate in north London, it's got a bit of a reputation for being home to a few generations of violent scumbags, the person in the video in the OP is just one example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadwater_Farm

I think there should be the qualifying statement of 'illegal' in there somewhere.
What I carry and the manner in which I carry/use it is perfectly legal. What people like this tend to carry and do with it is very much illegal from the outset.
I'd hate to see all those perfectly legal knives taken off the law abiding folk just because some scrote is toting a kitchen blade or something...

I didn't propose any other changes in law beyond a change in sentencing, "illegal" is implied already given we're talking about the punishment for an illegal act. You can already carry some knives legally if work-related, that doesn't require any changes to the law.

I think it's mostly a derogatory term for largely black criminal teenage youths that are involved in a lot of violent knife and drug related crimes in London and other cities in the UK.

Why is it derogatory? "Chavs" would have been derogatory, "urban youth" is rather neutral/descriptive.

 

[dowie]

What is urban youth?

Elderly people who live in the countryside.

 

[dowie]

If you feel uncomfortable answering the question, you are part of the problem. What is urban youth?

The problem you're having with basic reading comprehension? I'm not sure what you want here but these aren't obscure words and you could try a dictionary or indeed google if you're genuinely struggling here.

Well that definitely didn't work, did it? Because now his name is all over the media.

True but he's semi-famous, at least in some circles. It's kinda moot anyway given that it seems the police arrested them shortly after the incident.

 

[dowie]

I've never used urban youth as a phrase in my life so I'm genuinely interested what you were trying to convey by saying it. I'm unclear why you are dodging what should be a basic question

Im just bemused that you don’t know what words mean, to be clear though there isn’t any deeper meaning here. As I’ve already explained I’m obviously referring to elderly people living in the countryside!

 

[dowie]

He seems to think there is some deeper meaning or something, I genuinely don’t know what he wants here.

 

[dowie]

Music is a proven way out of that life.

Not really, I'd be quite skeptical of that (the argument is made in the link below too but it seems like quite a reach) I mean I'm sure there are exceptions but you might as well say that buying a lottery ticket is a way out of that life - it might be for a handful but realistically becoming a rapper or drill artist isn't going to work out for 99% of these urban youths.

Drill is simply a genre of music, it's the way you flow, the instruments, and the way a beat is put together, that's not dependant on violence, you can say what you want. The more talented artists/producers do actually rise to the top of the scene, the content of the songs change slightly and that person doesn't have to continue living whatever life they lead when they started making the music.

No one said the style of music itself was dependent on violence, that would make no sense - in theory of course you could have some Will Smith of drill music. In reality, though the culture currently surrounding it is based on gang culture & violence, that's the harmful bit.

The thing is, there is. Urban has been used to describe black youths for years. It's also a derogatory description.

Either you're ignorant of that, which is fine, or you know and are hiding behind a keyboard.

How is it derogatory?

That would seem to be news for this UK charity: https://twitter.com/urbanyouth_org?lang=en

and this university: https://www.city.ac.uk/news-and-eve...hat-criminalising-it-does-more-harm-than-good

and this local authority: https://cig.hounslow.gov.uk/kb5/hounslow/community/service.page?id=BKQjIxDZmr4

Or perhaps you're just making things up! It's quite bemusing how a couple of posters in here are so keen on trying to get in some sort of straw man attack.

 

[dowie]

Any reason why you doubt it?

Well for the reason already given, the numbers don't work...

Obviously it isn't the only path out they can take, and I'm not trying to say they can all be successful rappers. But there's a lot of creativity going on to make a drill song and accompanying video, like the guardian article in the op mentions, it's more than just rappers, you're providing valuable roles and skills that can get these kids started on a career path (videographers, producers, talent management, rappers, song writers, graphic designers, social media managers etc.).

That's a bit broader now though creative industries, in general, are rather competitive tbh.. But his guy didn't express a desire to study videography (a local college could perhaps be of use there too), he's an aspiring rapper.

I've interpreted this as the culture of violence/gang life drives the creation of the music.

Well it can do, I mean it's got a direct influence on the lyrics for a start, but it's fairly embedded in it in general, it seems to drive some of the success of the music, they already have a reputation etc..

 

[dowie]

Unfortunately @dowie drags people into what is known as the dowie hole[...]

hmmm....

 

[dowie]

It's not uncomfortable, people know the reasons, mainly poverty. It's only uncomfortable because it's easier to blame black people instead of fixing the causes.

Because the thread basically started out as 'lol black people at it again' and jumping to conclusions based on someone involved being the son of Mark Duggan.

Can you not see it? You want to handwave it all away as "poverty" as though this could have been any kid growing up in a poor household.

Pure coincidence that this kid's dad was a violent gangster then he turns out to be one too... pure coincidence that his mates in his drill group are violent gangsters too, several of them currently serving lengthly sentences for murder right now.

One of the rival gangsters involved in a previous incident was a private school boy even!

But lets just downplay the cultural issues here...

Honestly I never realised OCUK had such a challenge with basic language. You literally made the (incorrect) statement:

After the number of posts you've made re: your inability to understand what "urban" and "youth" could possibly mean?

 

[dowie]

was curious as to why he removed my user ID so I didn't get an notification?

I've got no idea what you're talking about tbh...

Do you actually have anything to add to the thread - so far you seem to have just posted about not being able to understand (or apparently google for yourself) the meaning of two words, now you're making some bizarre claim about removing your user ID????

 

[dowie]

So basically you've posted nearly 30 times in order to troll the thread...

 

[dowie]

You've not addressed any viewpoints expressed in the OP - you made a couple of dozen posts where you pretend you don't know what words mean and then threw in a load of projection and now insults... Are you not capable of having a discussion or seeing a view you disagree with?

 

[dowie]

So I guess the answer to my question is no then, just more projection from you....

 

[dowie]

@dowie for the sake of ending this ongoing.... ‘thing’ (and asked somewhat rhetorically), when you said ‘urban youth’ did you mean ‘youth from urban areas’?.

Yup, though have already told the poster there was no deeper meaning. I don't think he's actually interested though, he's not attempted to discuss the issue itself.

Im just bemused that you don’t know what words mean, to be clear though there isn’t any deeper meaning here. As I’ve already explained I’m obviously referring to elderly people living in the countryside!

Likewise in this post I provide several examples of it's use:

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/forums/posts/34785405/

But despite that it seems various people will just make up their own argument regardless, so what is the point in pandering to them?

 

[dowie]

Some people just try and deflect, people like the one above just come here to deflect away from the problem and throw the racism card around to get a rise from others. They then have the gall to claim others are the ones always going on about race.

Race wasn't even mentioned in the OP but just look at the post above yours and you'll see someone trying to make up an argument to argue against, seemingly incapable of actually discussing what has been presented.

I guess people with a binary view on some subject or other tend to project that way of thinking on others too, it's particularly naive. Black youths are of course more heavily represented among urban youths than the wider population, that doesn't imply that all urban youths are black youths, likewise, gang violence involving urban youths isn't exclusively black just because black youths are disproportionately represented.

Of course, these gangs usually commit crime, that's literally part of the culture of the gang and indeed drill music scene they're involved in.

 

[dowie]

The thread wasn’t posted in the music forum because the music itself isn’t the subject, I don’t know why you’re not able to understand that? As for the rest, try responding to what was actually posted instead of engaging in some attempt at mind reading.

 

[dowie]

But that’s what you asked? I quoted your questions. They were asking about the ID of the rapper and the quality of the music.

If you think this thread is about the quality of the music then I don’t believe there is anything to discuss with you tbh..

 

[dowie]

Lol twitter is that way -->

He’s just making up his own (rather unhinged) argument.

 

[dowie]

I'd hazard a guess that those choosing to say urban in this sense aren't intending to use it in a racist way and simply fear using the term "black" due to the perpetually offended.

Not really, I don't mind if the idiots get offended, I said urban because I meant urban, if I'd wanted to say black then I'd have said black. Unfortunately, some people seem to view the whole world through some sort of binary lens and can't understand any sort of nuance. Would be silly to pretend this is exclusively a black issue, it's disproportionately so but not exclusively so ergo why would I use black when I don't mean that?

Most of these arguments are just based on projection/attempts at mind-reading by other posters, none of them seem able to discuss the issues themselves either. This one even diverts from mind-reading into making up some claimed facts

But bare in mind, when he’s caught out, he very much melts down. He’s even accused some people of picking on him and claimed he’s old and vulnerable because of his disability according to another poster.

Very very sad behaviour.

Lol what??? Where have I claimed I’m old and vulnerable because of a disability? This really has jumped the shark in terms of attempting to attack the poster by making things up?

Also, FYI, anyone can click on my profile and show a list of threads I've created.